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Today is April 14, 2020. My name is Gordan Liu and I am here on a video call with Sixto Wagan to interview him for the Houston Asian American Archive. I'm going to start off by asking when and where

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were you born? I was born in St. Louis, Missouri in 1971. And how would you describe the household you grew up in? Um, it was um...

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My parents came from the Philippines, in— I guess '65. So a few years before, and at that point, I am the youngest of three siblings. And I, at that point, it was

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me, my sisters, my parents; and then from when I was born until two, my grandmother— my mother's mother was living with us; and then after that, I think that we had an aunt living with us, an

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aunt and uncle. So that, you know, there was definitely other family members that were part of that household most of the time growing up. Gotcha. Um, how did your parents' Filipino background influence your upbringing?

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Um, it was pretty significant. I think that my parents—my mother came to the US as part of a residency as a-as a doctor and as an internist. And then my father was working in business and .

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I think that I very much we grew up and with— my parents, would speak Tagalog most of the time at home, and we would answer mainly in English. And, or at least, and definitely when they were

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speaking to our relatives, or like, you know, my aunt and my uncle, they would be speaking Tagalog and we would continue to be responding in English. I think, um, growing up, it was very much, we ate more Filipino, like traditional Filipino foods and that aspect.

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My– my parents also became community organizers, which is not necessarily something that they actually set out to be, but they were involved initially through I think the, you know, the Filipino

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community in Houston is pretty tight, in particular with the doctors, many of the doctors were working together. And then there was an association that brought many of the doctors together. And then at a

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certain point, my mother and my father I worked with the Lauria family as— they basically co- founded the Filipino American Society, which was a cultural organization, working with a lot of— a lot

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of other Filipinos from different— not just doctors; but working together in order to create more of a Filipino culture. And to make sure and be able to promote that in multiple ways, mainly through food and

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fairs... and then also through cultural dance, which is something that I grew up learning, basically from middle school on through high school. So I think that–that aspect.

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Yeah. So yeah, they were cultural organizers and I think that in terms of just much of the value system, and much of the idea is based a lot of, you know, in Filipino and immigrant American experience. Yeah.

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So what were some of the core values that your parents raised you with? Well definitely it was family. I think family was very-it was significantly important. Even though that I-that at that point we had, we didn't actually visit the Philippines a lot because of money, and then

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there was that, definitely, my parents were supporting grandparents, other siblings. And, and continue to instill within us, you know, the value of family for me and my sisters really connect us, you know, and

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the strength of that aspect. I think that we did want to think about their aspects of integration that was important, but really still understanding that we were— that we had the Filipino

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heritage and Filipino culture that we should be proud of. I think that in other ways, I mean, family hard work, and, was significant.

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I think that, you know, there was a definite acknowledgement of the, the work that needed to happen and potential discrimination that we were all going to face. Not potential— my parents

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face number of direct aspects of discrimination, and they were basically helping us live that reality and kind of getting–acknowledge what the opportunities would be where what we would actually have to be facing.

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So I think that in terms of that, and like, you know, it was always coming back to family, coming back to working hard, education was significant component of what we were doing and what was important to us. How accepting was your, the area you grew up in, in terms of

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diversity and inclusion? Um, I grew up by going to Catholic school for the first, I guess, through sixth grade. And I think

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that, my family was, I think, there might have been another Asian family like in the school. There might have— there's at least two African American families and maybe one Latino family. So it really wasn't,

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growing in that Catholic parish, it wasn't very diverse. But I do think that having the connections in terms of the Filipino American Society for land was really significant in order to understand the-that they

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were Filipinos and other people of color out there. My parents did-my father did work in a–in a public sector, so that there was a number of other opportunities where he worked with a lot of-much more

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diverse community then what we were engaging with-that we lived with. And I think that in our, in our subdivision, there was another Asian family. Pretty much we grew up in a very white centric world.

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Gotcha. So what were some of the spaces where you felt the strongest sense of belonging growing up? Well, I think that you know, as many of us in you know, the generation we learn to adapt pretty

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quickly to whatever situation in whatever space. I think that it was, you know, particularly being the youngest in the family and, and as an immigrant, like, I definitely have figured— like my parents and my

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sisters definitely figure things out and created different opportunities. So I think that there was a lot of adaptability and I became— I, I learned to become comfortable; and a lot of places no matter what, I think that there was also a, a

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part of recognizing that my versatility, my personality was not something that was always going to be shown at any point. You know, definitely when we were in the Filipino communities, it was definitely a

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much more Filipino forward, cultural forward, um, engagement. And I think that we were able to talk a lot more or at least experience more in terms of, our brownness.

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I think that when we were at school and when we were at church, it was a... I don't think that, you know, that it was as evident in terms of the daily aspect of racial difference.

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But it was still a very clear idea about understanding that we were different. But if we–I guess if we acted right or acted well enough that it wouldn't matter, or it wouldn't be-wouldn't be noted. So I think that there's

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aspects in terms of comfort became–and I think it's really hard. It's hard to work in terms of what we were able to do because we adapted. Got it. Who were some of your

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influential mentors growing up? So are we talking about like, you know, through childhood or are we talking about going into adulthood? Still— we're still in the childhood. So any teachers or other sort of role models that shaped

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you? Yeah, I think that you know, it was... I think in–in school, I think that there are— wait with questions Catholic school. So we had some very significant pastors and-and-and

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clergy that were important. I think that we grew up with Monsignor Glavin, and then Father Kemper, and then Monsignor O'Donnell became really significant people throughout different aspects and in different

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ways. I think Monsignor Glavine was definitely a very kind of a typical, you know, pastor and hands-hands off but very kind of stern and strict in that manner, which I think

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was a significant way of just interacting. I think that Father Kemper was actually the first priest that interacted with us as–as young people in ways that were more personal and really kind of like, you know, actually treated

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us as–not, not as students, but as growing and growing people. I think that was a significant switch for me to be able to be in that–in that

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environment where a priest, you know, was actually talking to us, like, we were adults. I think that you know, Filipino, and like family, you know, was always a significant, you know, place. I think that a–we

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had European teachers there stay, who were like the folk dance instructors, were significant because, you know, folk dance became a really important part of me growing up. And I think that just having that

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group and having those group of kids that we would constantly see, but then also just being able to connect to the cultural dance and work with the journey was actually really great. And then, you know, and then there's just a lot of other adults in that

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group, that it was great to just be around and to see how they interacted, you know, how the mix of professions was actually really significant, you know, recognizing that there

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were some aspects in terms of Filipinos. When we became the Filipino doctors, it became a completely different type of a social environment than it was with when this became not necessarily about a professional network but something more

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about an actual, you know, a more of a relatable community. So I think that having that idea of what gathering meant, and having that idea of what, what it meant–where culture actually existed in terms of those

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friendships and in terms of how that works, I think this really influenced the way that I work now. Mhm. Yea. Could you talk more about your relationship with art, um, growing up?

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So I think that, you know, art was always like something that we had–like the cultural dances that we, you know, from middle school and all that, and I think–I don't think I thought about it very much doing it. It was just something that we were supposed to do, you know, something that we

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were required to do. So I think that–but it was a significant component because that was the consistent interaction with a lot of Filipino kids, and that was the place where

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we actually, you know, whether we were, you know, hanging out for long periods of time afterwards, you know, outside of that, we all connected because we were learning, like, almost every weekend, we were like learning dances, we were practicing, we were

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rehearsing for performances and fairs and festivals. And, you know, my parents were, you know, we had– they all had the lamb at the booth where they sold, you know, the barbecue, the lumpia, you know, and all of the other aspects where— so as kids, we were working, you know,

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we would be if, like, when we were three–like we would be young in order to actually help with, you know, making the barbecue or making any of the foods, but then when we were old enough, we were also working with booths and being

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representative of the Filipino community to, you know, in that aspect. So it was great in order to have that type of connection. It wasn't necessarily about arts specifically.

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But it was definitely art and dance performance were part of it. Um, I also had, like, you know, growing up, I consistently like to draw and have that skill in terms of art.

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And it was encouraged in order to be able to, like, you know, to–they know that I had skills and that they recognized that was something that my parents and my teachers recognized that it was, you know, something that I had talented in,

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so that they, you know, were supportive in that manner. But it was always still one of those things that art at that point is a hobby. And that, you know, of course, there was that–there was a point in like, second or third grade where I was

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selling bookmarks. I was drawing bookmarks aqnd making bookmarks for people and getting my 5 cents or 25 cents spending. So, that’s my first entrepreneurial experience, but not really–I wouldn't consider it a really great commercial venture.

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But it was nice in order to kind of like, you know, people acknowledging and recognizing that I–that drawing is something that was a skill that people could appreciate, and other people appreciated my talents in that.

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So I think that that was an important component of just— it was always part of life. I think that you know, at least for me, I think, yeah, you know, of course, that we were all required and ordered to learn

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piano and growing up, so we had our piano lessons. Music is not necessarily–was not my talent as a kid. I think that that was definitely, it is a–a, it is an important experience in my life.

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But I don't think that it was actually something where–I didn't take too as well as I did in drawing or other aspects. So we’ll leave it at

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that for now. Gotcha. Okay, so going into high school, what sort of subjects interested you the most? And so I think that you know, toward the— so when I transferred from, like from private school to

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public school in sixth grade, one of the significant kind of switches was actually being accepted into the gifted and talented program that we had. And being part of that group in which the–having

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access to a project-oriented activity based learning and really where creativity was significant. So I think that those

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projects and that community was able to be a significant kind of ongoing component of my high school learning. I was definitely a–an English–English and language arts, was definitely a significant component

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of what I did. And that was kind of the group that I hung out with the most. I guess I also started theater. And we did some plays in junior high, but then I think that that continued further in high school when there were more opportunities in that aspect.

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But English was, and the humanities, was where I was thriving. And I did, you know, I was good at math and sciences, but I think that it was easier.

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I guess, one of the other aspects that was great about my high school experience was that we actually had a more college-oriented type of format where we would actually select different English classes. So that instead

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of it being, just everybody together in a grade, we would actually be able to select—I did I know that I did poetry, I did Shakespeare, I did modern drama—so that there was a–there were ways in order to address a

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lot more specific interests versus these larger survey courses. And so I think that that was really an important contributor to my engagement within English and to be able to write. We had a variety and it

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started to be more of an in-depth type of approach versus a survey approach, which is not something I'm very good at. So yeah, I think that, you know, just going further in depth within

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specific topics or specific ideas was really important. They also had some really amazing English teachers. I think that–there was

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a—all of the English teachers shared a communal office—and that's where most of us hung–that's where many of us hung out a lot of the times. So we would interact with Mrs.

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Noland, Mr. Heidi, and . And actually, that not only were they–not only were they our instructors, but even during our

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times outside of that, uh, they would be influential in our learning. Not only about like that, but also in terms of politics, in terms of critical thinking. Um, I also became really involved in speech and debate during high school.

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And the earlier years more on the kind of debate side, and then, the later years more on the speech side, or the kind of dramatic–and the, you know, I think that I was very much into–as the— I

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did the poetry reading, I did the dramatic interpretation, and I did a lot of, kind of, some of the directing of some of the... and then I became more of an administrator of the speech and debate team.

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So I think that it was great to be able to have both be the analytical skills that were necessary in terms of the debate, but also had the creative outlet in that relationship to the speech, as well as it

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gave me the opportunity in order to start running a small organization thanks to the speech and debate team and had a lot of administrative skills, I guess thinking back on it that taught me a lot of–about administration and running organizations

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by helping to build that team. How did you find your voice with performing, debating, writing? Was that always something that

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was, you were good at, growing up? Or what was that process like? Yeah, thanks. That's an interesting question.

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Um, it was. I mean, if you think through this, it wasn't easy to find a voice. No, no, it was not.

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I think that it was always–I was encouraged to have a voice in many ways. I think that having the parents that I had, you know, with my and–and with what they've gone through, and what they faced, it was very clear in order to

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have–they definitely instilled in us a strength of, you know, effective personality and kind of that voice. It was important for us to be sure of ourselves in public and in those situations, so that definitely was

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encouraged from a home standpoint, in terms of when it came to, when it came to school. I think that the aspects about voice and kind of personality I think were things that I found

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through speaking, you know, through the gifted and talented program, and through debate, and some of theater. So I think that there are ways in which I was able to channel a kind of a chameleon attitude and understanding, I think that

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the code switching that I was doing throughout all of this gave me an opportunity to be able to put that on stage, and recognize that I can go-ahead and be those characters and embody things, and different people,

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and different personalities, and I think that that was something that was really comfortable. And, and now, I actually had a very specific form in order to do that. It did not hurt that I was–that people thought I was good at those things.

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So, I think that you know, in terms of that, you know, I would win, like I would win the competition–some of the competitions, I would like, you know, have that. And so that these ideas about some of the performance and some of the, I

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guess, non-traditional, non-science kind of related aspects, it validated my experiences in them because I was winning trophies, because I was, you know, because I went to a state in like, you know, every year or something, and

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was a recognized competitor in all that. It helped to justify the fact that I can spend time away from being a science or math

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person. Not that it was the only thing; but it was definitely a clear trajectory that my parents had in my head–in their heads for me was that, you know, continued to go into medicine, and many, for many years,

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I thought that was my path as well. So I think that in terms of voice it was, I was ab–I was lucky to have an environment in which I had some strong personalities that encouraged us to think to be

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strong in that aspect. And I had, I guess, an environment in which multiple arenas where I can kind of test those–test that personality and test those

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voices, in really kind of, I guess, a safe setting. And so I think it was really good in order to have that kind of speech. And speech and debate was definitely a significant arena for me to

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find, find leadership, find my own kind of personality, as well as then, you know, continuing to do the work as a student, and doing all of the other things that I was doing.

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Yeah. Thank you for sharing. What college did you go to and how did your academic interests evolve throughout your undergrad experience? So I went to Rice. And I think part of the thing was,

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when I was going, right, I am sorry, I was able to go to Rice and choose Rice because it was a far-away, and it was something that was really important for me to be able to move away from home.

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And, but then Rice was cheap, most definitely cheap. And it was at that point, I think US News and World Report ranked in the top or the second, you know, best investment in college education.

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So I think that was the only thing that convinced my parents that I could go away. So it was great that it was affordable at that point. And so I went to Rice as an English psychology pre-med major, recognizing that I was going to

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be–I was on the track in order to come to medicine to go to medical career, and that English was definitely going to be a, you know, one of the majors because I guess we couldn't–we couldn't in pre-med at that point. And English was definitely

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going to be–it's always a core aspect for me. And then I was thinking about psychology as an ongoing opportunity, and, you know, I think that it was envisioned at that point that if I was going into medicine

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that I would either become, you know, go into plastic surgery or psychiatry, figure out how to make things happen in this aspect. Really strange ways of making upgrading . I think that I did my pre-med and, you know, I fulfilled all the

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pre-med requirements and did okay. But it was a–it was not the type of work that I wanted to do. I think that there was a significant, or the, be the

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attitude of many of the medical schools or the science in that point, was very–was a lot more research or science-oriented and not necessarily very patient-oriented. And I think growing up with my mother being

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very focused on patients and working with the teens that she did. That was a type of medicine that I was interested in, like, you know, engagement and very patient centric work. That was not what I was actually going to learn, I think, in medicine at that point, or

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at least that I wasn't–it didn't seem to go in that direction. So I was able to just switch majors really kind of focus on things that were important to me. And it was

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great in order to be able to switch to becoming an art and art history major, as well as an English major, and focus very much on those skills and that opportunity. And I don't think that if it were at a different

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university, it would have been as easy in order to do that. I think that the size of Rice and the ability in order to major in multiple things, was–allowed me to be facile in this aspect.

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I don't think that if I went to a larger university, I would pretty much been locked into a very specific career path. So I think that as an undergraduate, I was really learning a lot about, you know, I was doing a lot of work

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in terms of in the English–English classes. And of course, my basic, but I was really interested in minority literature, you

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know, and really where, you know, Latino, like, African American, Asian American literature, and where your voice was. I think that was became a significant component of all of my undergraduate work.

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I think that— Yeah, but, you know, what, I was, you know, active within the college system and at Baker. And–but I think that being able to have–to focus on art,

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to be able to be pushed by Karen Broker, by being pushed by Bosculous in order to be thinking about art making and, and, and image making and idea making in different ways. Because Boston and Karen are pretty much on

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opposite sides of the aesthetic spectrum. But I think having both of them were was a significant kind of push to me to think about how images are made, what that look like, what the effect was, what the reception was, and then also

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really, how to make sure that they also enabled me and like, you know, to include politics within–in the perspectives and make sure that like those voices, that–that was important to me, would actually be

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supported and encouraged in the image making that was happening. Don't say that I was really great at some of that, but it still is important in order to have–have that support and, and I think that you know,

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really kind of having an undergraduate degree, like undergraduate focus, and exploring some of the ideas and some of the themes, I think was really significant at the time. What did you continue exploring after graduating?

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So I think that you know, what a big transition undergraduate was, was when I came out as queer, I guess I–it was in my, yeah, so I came out publicly junior year, which also became like, also the year that I

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switched to art and art history as a major. And so I think those ideas about, about personal histories, about voice, about politics were a significant part of my personal journey at that point. And that was actually

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very significant in terms of what my–my presence was in terms of art. And, and in those items and, and in the English classes that I took. So I–those ideas about Queer Studies, the ideas about

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feminist work, were really significant themes that were–that continued to happen in, in my critical work as well as the artwork that I was making. Um, and so this–my senior year,

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and as an undergraduate, I also had the museum studies course or like the gallery studies course. And so I was able to work with Stella Dobbins and J. Anderson at that point.

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And there are many projects that we were working with, but one of the things that I was able to do was my big project for the year or for that semester, was to do the Day Without Art World AIDS Day event on

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campus. And in my head, whether this is real or not, it was, I think, one of the first big public AIDS– World AIDs–— I think it was the first time that we did a World AIDS Day event on campus. Whether– whether that's true or not, I'm not sure.

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I don't think I can verify it. I didn't do know that it was one of the first things that we did within the within the arts department that we were talking about.

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And so it was a significant kind of component like this is like what, early mid 90s in order to, to make a statement and connect Rice and connect our community to a larger

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eco national, you know, conversation about HIV AIDS. And to, to be consistent about the–all of the lives lost at that point.

00:32:49.510 - 00:33:04.450

And, and that the, the, I think that, you know, as–as many times that we haven't been looking at Rice, is that the outside world existed on the outside, you know, and that these aspects of politics really at that point– or,

00:33:05.030 - 00:33:19.690

like, you know, some of these themes were not necessarily actually come inside the hedges. And I think that it was important for me to, to have that connection and to do that type of project. What then happened was, after that project,

00:33:20.570 - 00:33:34.180

I had did an internship with DiverseWorks in the next year, and different sources, Contemporary Art Center in Houston. And my first project working with–with DiverseWorks, was working with gay and lesbian young people.

00:33:35.810 - 00:33:49.120

I interned there at a really significant point for DiverseWorks history because it was actually the transition from the founding co-directors to a new leadership team and a new leadership structure.

00:33:50.040 - 00:34:02.890

So I think that I mentioned this because I–it becomes really significant in most of my professional career to be in like— I do a lot of work with organizations in transition. So as I started, as I continued.

00:34:03.500 - 00:34:21.110

So it was really like— at DiverseWorks, I worked with gay and lesbian young people through a School's Out project. And we were able to work with a lot of queer identified teens and 20 somethings with Luis Alfaro , Brian Freeman,

00:34:21.170 - 00:34:36.290

Five Lesbian Brothers, and Mary Ellen Stone, really significant kind of thinkers and you know, and artists within the queer, within fields of performance realm, and also a really significant queer thinkers and

00:34:36.900 - 00:34:54.700

advocates. Um, and so it was just being at DiverseWorks was a, an important transition in terms of thinking about where art existed and where I like–where my skills lie, not necessarily as a maker as a

00:34:54.870 - 00:35:14.330

creator, but also as I, through this project, seeing how art and performance actually was transformative to the lives of like, you know, of the queers, to my live, and actually being able to, to be connected to these mentors, but also to be encouraged to find

00:35:14.330 - 00:35:31.100

voice, to encourage in order to display truth in ways that was, that was, you know, I think counter to a typical kind of Asian perspective. You know, I think that and also in kind of a price perspective, these are

00:35:31.100 - 00:35:49.440

things were growing up as eventually, you know, you did code switching, and it didn't really matter who or what you were, I think now it became really significant in order to have a specific identity in which that I carried around in multiple places; and that became significant

00:35:49.810 - 00:36:04.930

enough in order to be–to be–to be who I was in that aspect. So I think that–that–that internship at DiverseWorks essentially defined the rest of my life, defined a lot

00:36:04.930 - 00:36:18.930

of my professional career. And what also happened simultaneously like after, after graduating, I got my ma— like I, I didn't know exactly what to do, like in terms of work in terms of career.

00:36:20.140 - 00:36:28.870

But I did think that it was important for me to become a teacher, and actually get my master's in teaching and be certified in order to work in public schools.

00:36:29.740 - 00:36:45.870

I think that–that the opportunity in order to be able to take this learning to take these ideas of transformation and empowerment, and actually be able to bring that into a school

00:36:45.870 - 00:37:01.560

setting, and to be involved in a really significant kind of way in–in inner city public schools was an important part, like, you know, why I wanted to become a teacher. And I was able to work at Westbury

00:37:01.560 - 00:37:17.110

High School, which at that point was a inessential schools format, which was not necessarily about, it wasn't specifically about grades or standardized testing, but it was about a multi-module learning, and

00:37:17.110 - 00:37:30.840

really being able to think about project-based learning, design, that, that we were also talking about multiple, like, you know, multiple ways of learning. And that was actually what was really important for

00:37:30.840 - 00:37:44.800

me to be able to bring into a classroom so that even though that I taught art on, you know, all grades art in one way. But in my English classes was definitely incorporating a lot of my art influences and

00:37:45.450 - 00:38:03.240

experiences and using art and movement as ways in order to think through interpretation and language is really important. I was a teacher at Westbury for three years. It was

00:38:04.790 - 00:38:22.110

awesome, and a really challenging time to do work. And I think that it was made more challenging because I was continuing to work DiverseWorks, I was continuing to be supportive like and doing the work with a

00:38:22.110 - 00:38:34.500

queer young people. And so during the day I was a teacher that–where we could not be like, you know, being queer was definitely not a public thing.

00:38:35.450 - 00:38:52.230

And in the evenings, definitely doing work in which I was working in, you know, queer activism, queer community organizing. And I think that I had co-founded a performance company around that time, or, or

00:38:53.290 - 00:39:05.920

so that there was a whole transition at that point. So they really focused a lot on learning a lot of performance while I was speaking these queer identity issues. And I think, so we also–this school also

00:39:05.920 - 00:39:18.180

transcends transition principles at that time. And so there was a lot of policy changes that were not necessarily conducive to the way that I wanted to teach. And we were able to, at DiverseWorks, create a

00:39:18.870 - 00:39:35.890

national arts administration mentorship program in partnership with the National Performance Network, National Association of Arts Organizations, and school departments. What that program did was it, it supplemented–it provided me enough of a living wage in order to transition

00:39:35.890 - 00:39:51.020

out of teaching and actually think about arts administration as a full-time career, and, and connected me with a national network of mentors, as well as working with Lewis Bradley, who was my boss and

00:39:51.020 - 00:40:08.920

my mentor at DiverseWorks in a very value-oriented, multi-directional mentorship process that actually focused on values and focused on experience instead of focusing on a specific professional

00:40:09.580 - 00:40:26.460

skill set, so that, the ideas of experience by learning, the ideas of–of having empowerment and actually, like, learning through failure was–was

00:40:26.650 - 00:40:40.370

important in those early days as an administrator. I do have to say that it was a huge privilege in order to actually be able to be in a lot of those conversations at DiverseWorks at that age.

00:40:41.590 - 00:40:54.300

Because I was not like–through that mentorship program, I was in conversations with executive directors, I was in conversations with boards, I was in conversations with national leaders, so that I got access to

00:40:56.020 - 00:41:11.340

critical thinkers at a time when most people are still just kind of doing filing, right. So I think that it was important in terms of me understanding what leadership

00:41:11.340 - 00:41:27.010

meant, I think that it was really important in terms of also what it meant in terms of lineage and opportunity, and how do we actually create significant moments of learning for multiple people like for

00:41:28.290 - 00:41:41.920

all generations of people. So that's a really long answer to your question. Thank you for sharing. I want to go back into in depth with Diver–your work with DiverseWorks.

00:41:42.050 - 00:41:56.270

But first, I want to ask about your take on queer history because you talked about how your college experience really shaped your understanding of your identity. How do you think queer history should be

00:41:56.270 - 00:42:11.770

passed down, given that it is different than most other cultural groups where it's not hereditary so of course it looks different. Um, I think that it was within, you know, particularly

00:42:12.750 - 00:42:28.670

for us, I guess I failed to mention we also created "Quack". Damon Moo Bashir and I created "Quack Creative Collective" in 1998 I think. One of the things that we did it was a collective of 20 something multi-gender

00:42:28.670 - 00:42:46.520

multi-ethnic queers that were utilizing performance as a means in order to find a peer group. One of the reasons why I formed that–or we did like–so many of our mentors and the generation before us have actually

00:42:46.700 - 00:42:59.700

passed away. And we didn't have the, you know, we didn't have our, you know, that generation before. So even though that it is

00:42:59.780 - 00:43:14.100

a community of choice versus a commitment to queer community, I think that there was a–we were missing an essential voices. And so I think that we came together in order to create spaces in order to,

00:43:14.580 - 00:43:28.340

to have a group where we could challenge each other on multiple aspects. Not only–and then and also like, you know, start learning with each other about, about feminist perspectives about Trans

00:43:29.230 - 00:43:45.180

and Queer rights about non-binary existences and you know, and really challenging issues of about, you know, white privilege in, in an environment that was really supportive

00:43:45.990 - 00:44:00.210

and safe and conflicted in all the best ways. So I think going back to like, you know, how do we–how do we learn, how this queer history actually transfers, learning some of this. I think that, it was also really

00:44:00.460 - 00:44:19.040

significant for us at "Quack" in order to, to create spaces where queer, queer experiences, this did not have to exist in just bars and pubs. And not to discount

00:44:19.290 - 00:44:31.140

or discredit bars and clubs, because those are really significant places that like, you know, of community and–and learning. And you know, dance clubs of riches and heavens were like, you know, some of the best moments of

00:44:31.240 - 00:44:50.300

my life. But I do think that we also needed to find a way that–how do we define ourselves outside of these very queer–queer identified spaces that alcohol and, you know, the

00:44:51.550 - 00:45:08.100

alcohol drug abuse was rampant. So how can we find spaces that were about finding a personality that was not defined about you know, with, with alcohol and drug use. It means and, and then also like, you know,

00:45:08.280 - 00:45:19.050

and challenged ourselves in order to kind of figure out what was–what was true at that point outside of, you know, drugs. So we–it was a

00:45:19.050 - 00:45:33.380

really important way for us to work together. But it also became a significant component of our work to work with patch these areas in coalition circles . And actually, again, continue a cycle of how do we

00:45:33.740 - 00:45:47.930

connect to another generation of queer youth or queers. So that–that these ideas about mentorship these ideas about generation even though that the we had, we lost so many, what can we actually do in order to

00:45:47.930 - 00:46:04.340

be able to be supportive of a voice supportive and just recognize that there are ways in order to– to learn history. I think much of what we did because I like my–my learning of queer history.

00:46:04.390 - 00:46:20.620

And clear expression was through performance. I think that these lived individual experiences are the way that I approach most of histories. And so, I did actually do a lot of critical theory,

00:46:21.810 - 00:46:38.900

or queer critical theory, when I was an undergraduate. And–and so that is part of like, you know, the individual voice and these stories are a significant way, I think that we need to carry

00:46:39.380 - 00:46:53.760

on. And I think that it's great that this part of the archive projects, but also I've done it with the rights queer project as well. And like how do we actually think about what these experiences have been.

00:46:54.030 - 00:47:13.770

What had–what— how are we learning? And how are we creating space for different generations? And you know, in certain ways, this is what we learned. Do with it as you will, because we can't continue to do–we can't learn for

00:47:13.770 - 00:47:26.380

you. We learned–we made mistakes. Very clearly. And very stubbornly. You know, and I think that's a significant thing that needs to happen with every generation of —

00:47:26.380 - 00:47:40.990

And so, so. So really specifically in terms of like queer histories, how do we actually personalize this? How do we think about those voices? How do we actually make sure that there is a lot of a

00:47:41.270 - 00:47:51.770

difference within that? And so that–we were pretty intentional about "Quack" of making sure that they were that we were not just... uh, okay.

00:47:55.360 - 00:48:07.460

Most of us were college educated, but not all of us were. Most of us had jobs that were, but you know, most of us–some of us actually had full time jobs. Some of us had, you know, did a lot of gig work at that point.

00:48:07.600 - 00:48:21.140

So I think that they–we tried to create opportunities for people who were different in different ideas to be able to join with us. I think sometimes we were really successful at that. And sometimes we weren't.

00:48:21.330 - 00:48:34.580

But I think that that was some of the places like through "Quack", it was a significant place where I learned a lot more about trans, trans histories, trans perspectives. And through

00:48:34.580 - 00:48:49.580

those personal histories, it became a significant part of the way that I curated the future. That's really beautiful. Thank you. I wanted to ask also ask real quick. Um, your take on the word

00:48:49.580 - 00:49:09.360

"queer" as an umbrella term, given that it is a controversial word. So–we adapted queer, very intentionally. I think that there is an aspect

00:49:09.360 - 00:49:22.580

of an understanding of the politics around it, that why we wanted to adopt it, and why we wanted to reclaim the word. And I think that it was also really significant that we use queer.

00:49:22.600 - 00:49:38.140

Because like LGBTQIA became—to be inclusive of everything—became very long and very cumbersome, in order to have all of the acronyms. And I think that for me, the shorthand of "queer" became really easy in order to say that, this was,

00:49:39.190 - 00:49:51.980

it was an easier umbrella term. It was not gender specific. It was not gender— like it, it became generation specific, you know; but it was also about an intentionality of community.

00:49:52.380 - 00:50:03.630

It was about that, this was not about being homosexual. It was not about being lesbian. It was not about being... it was not about homogeneity. It was about that we needed to be diverse.

00:50:03.930 - 00:50:20.610

We needed to understand that our essence and the work that we were doing, and was political, and that our bodies and our lives were politicized by other people. So how do we also make me to make sure that we understood the politics that were part of

00:50:20.680 - 00:50:35.340

it? So yeah, so queer, is definitely intentional for me. And, you know, I think one was–one of my early performance spaces, was all about the ideas about clear, and like why– why queer was significant choice

00:50:35.440 - 00:50:48.320

for me; not gay, not homosexual. And not all of these other things that were easy, because it needed to be a specific choice.

00:50:48.990 - 00:51:05.250

Mhm. Awesome. Cool. Going back to your work with DiverseWorks, what strategies did you use to uplift the underrepresented artists in the Houston

00:51:05.670 - 00:51:21.870

scene? So I think that it was a part of the importance of me being on that national network of the National Performance Network, NAO and all of these, was that— I

00:51:21.870 - 00:51:32.680

was–it was very clear that I checked off a lot of boxes. I was Asian, I was queer, I was young, I was from the south, you know. I had multiple, multiple

00:51:32.680 - 00:51:44.290

things that fit within all these ideas. And, and I understood the significance and the importance of–of those designators.

00:51:45.640 - 00:52:03.510

And I think that being at DiverseWorks being like you know, with Laurice, being with all these other mentors, also made it very clear, that, in order to live up to my mentors, I needed to continue to–to be an advocate for underrepresented voices.

00:52:03.880 - 00:52:18.360

I needed to make sure that, um, that artists were actually listened to, and not just administrators that, that queers, that people of color, that trans voices, that women were all uplifted in different

00:52:19.130 - 00:52:37.380

ways. So I think that, um, that–that shows in who I commissioned in terms of performances, and who I invited into the conversation, how we made sure that, that if we did panels, did we make sure that there were

00:52:37.380 - 00:52:55.180

people of color or that there were women on those panels; or that the people that you know, that, that there was a diversity of perspectives that we were always doing. And so I think that it is a significant theme throughout, you know, all of my work as a professional

00:52:55.540 - 00:53:10.780

to figure out how to be an advocate for under–the under voiced, right; probably unheard, or under-heard–under-listened to. So I think that...

00:53:13.440 - 00:53:30.680

but I was also like, it was also clear that they weren't many people of color that were curators. And I think that there were two Asians when I was at different works, the kind of the early days, not unlike not immediately after graduation; but when he came back in 2002.

00:53:32.020 - 00:53:43.740

I think that they were two Asian curators in Houston, there is me and then there was a photography curator at the MFA. In terms of performance curators at the contemporary art center.

00:53:45.000 - 00:54:00.220

I was–there was me and maybe and they weren't really others, other Asian voices— I'm sorry like there's– there's Gail Lisa, an Asian American. I'm sorry. Gail is in

00:54:00.840 - 00:54:18.290

Philadelphia, and I forget— there were very few of us in terms of curators of color. Right. And so we were–it was significant in order to, to think about, not only us as Asians, but also,

00:54:18.730 - 00:54:35.120

how are we also able to uplift all the other, like all the voices of people of color. And so we look locally, I think that part of this is that there weren't that many

00:54:37.520 - 00:54:52.580

organizations that were–that were working, but how did we–we did try to make sure that— I did try to make sure that they were represented on the larger 12 minutes max. I did try to think of all these ideas of when we had curated or

00:54:52.580 - 00:55:07.320

panel type of groups, how do we make sure that those–those are ideas that have representation, those ideas, of what those opportunities were distributed, as, at that point, equitably as we could.

00:55:07.680 - 00:55:26.550

I think that the work that I did as a curator in a DiverseWorks is one sector of my–my work, I have had the privilege of being on–working with a number of foundations or arts organizations like the NEA; and actually

00:55:26.550 - 00:55:38.280

being on grants, making panels, where we were able to, to share resources and, and, and identify people to do that. And those were really significant

00:55:38.280 - 00:55:57.870

places for me to advocate for–for regional difference, for–for people of color, for–for women, for choreographers, you know, for queers; and really trying to make sure that whether they–their work was actually funded or not, how people were perceiving their work, or how

00:55:57.870 - 00:56:15.470

the work was being conceptualized, was always a significant way in order to be in those rooms in order to do, to have conversations–hard, hard conversations with my peers and my colleagues as to how we need to be thinking, like, how we, what were our own biases, what were our own

00:56:15.510 - 00:56:29.720

perspectives, and how we weren't actually just curating for ourselves, but we needed to be able to be thinking about the–the opportunities that we were giving to everybody; and–and making sure that the different voices;

00:56:30.580 - 00:56:45.800

or–were being supported so that we weren't continuing to fall into this idea of a white, Western European, New York, kind of contemporary performance practice as–as defining of,

00:56:46.110 - 00:57:01.110

of what it was good and worthy. Right. And how do you differentiate tokenism and true diversity? Well, I mean, like, there's the early days, parts of it worth, like understanding that like tokenism,

00:57:02.410 - 00:57:15.770

right? I know that I was tokenized and I took advantage of an awful lot of tokenism in order to get into those–get into rooms. Um, here I am, as I said, I would check, I hit those checkboxes and if when

00:57:15.770 - 00:57:27.100

foundations, when other groups were like, okay, we need somebody from the South; and well, Sixto is queer enough color so we can get multiple boxes. It allowed me into rooms and into, into conversations

00:57:27.840 - 00:57:42.380

that people–with other significant people of, like got power and influence. So, I acknowledge that I was that some of the times, my early days, it was part of a tokenism that allowed me into

00:57:42.380 - 00:57:54.650

those rooms. But I do feel that it was that because of what I was able to learn what I was able to bring to those rooms, it actually became much more than just me being a token, it was more about my ability, you know, what the

00:57:54.650 - 00:58:10.840

abilities that I brought into this. I do think that you know, as a curator and as a you know, and as an influencer of some of this, part of this was how are we building, how are we building

00:58:10.900 - 00:58:29.790

awareness and education, and in some ways that–that some of the visionaries and some of the pioneers were utilized as tokens, were utilized as, um, as entrees. And, and I think that we had–I had some conversations with

00:58:29.910 - 00:58:41.500

them. You know, I remember a conversation with Scott Turner Schofield who's an incredible trans artist we commissioned and you know, and he was struggling with this idea of his work.

00:58:41.730 - 00:58:52.650

He just wanted his work to be read as an artist. I'm like, "great, but you're also an educator." You've also been— part of his politics was–was to make his–his transitioning

00:58:52.650 - 00:59:07.130

process the work! Making a piece of these all commission was like, becoming a man and 127 easy steps. So it was really about like, he made the, his personal process and that education, a significant component

00:59:07.210 - 00:59:20.760

of, of his art. So therefore, he couldn't deny the significance of him as an educator and as a pioneer in that aspect. So I think that in these conversations, I think part

00:59:20.760 - 00:59:36.470

of what I tried to think about was, how do we take these, these opportu–moments of tokenism or these ideas and actually make them into real opportunities? And how do we really push, push

00:59:37.430 - 00:59:55.050

those boundaries; as we–as well as we could, in order to, to think about it. I guess I, you know, to–to push what was acceptable, what is known. And so I think that it continues to go back to these ideas of that, you know

00:59:55.050 - 01:00:10.500

me as an individual, and as an individual who represents these categories or these ideas, and therefore, how do–how does that familiarity actually create larger opportunities for context, larger opportunities for education,

01:00:11.570 - 01:00:30.960

that are significant and learning that are–that are scaffolding experiences for the future. Cool. Um, and what led you to become the founding director of the Center for Arts and Social

01:00:30.960 - 01:00:46.890

Engagement at University of Houston? So, a lot of the work at DiverseWorks, you know, I had been at DiverseWorks for the first time when I was in DiverseWorks. The first time this Christian I was there for I think seven years as an

01:00:47.080 - 01:01:03.090

intern as an artist in residence as a–as a staff member. I left for a couple of years and they came back in 2002. And then, I had been the performing arts curator, director, co-executive director and artistic director of the

01:01:03.090 - 01:01:18.890

DiverseWorks for 11 years, so are like all those. So I had been, it's been a lot–long time. The opportunities of being at these national circles, you know, and National Dance project through NEA,

01:01:19.050 - 01:01:32.940

through NEPA . And actually, through leveraging investments in creativity, where these were think tanks or areas where we were actually thinking about helpful policy on–that we were invited in order to think about ideas about social policy.

01:01:33.740 - 01:01:49.770

The University of Houston College of the Arts, or I'm sorry, the University of Houston, kind of U of H arts, had an opportunity, you know, there was funding in order to create kind of a center; and they're thinking about arts leadership.

01:01:50.060 - 01:02:05.170

And so I applied for the job thinking about this idea of leadership, not as an executive director, idea, ideal; but as an opportunity for, for transformation and use it as, as, as a methodology to

01:02:05.520 - 01:02:20.760

for cultural, social change. So that was actually what leadership was for me, and that these ideas about cultural policy, were significant on a national level, but I don't think we had these ideas on, like, we weren't as familiar with it on a local level.

01:02:21.230 - 01:02:36.730

So that these were that I like having creating forums in order to think about cultural policy to open up these ideas so that artists, community members, arts professionals on a local level, actually 'cause–got to think about cultural

01:02:36.730 - 01:02:50.970

policy are these kinds of issues on a national and global level. And that we're able to think about how their work actually connected to these things, and actually contributed to it was a significant kind of way

01:02:50.970 - 01:03:09.290

for me, like this was actually the way for me was thinking about what leadership actually meant for the arts. So I proposed that and I got the job. So um, so I think that it was through funding with, you know, Houston endowment, and it was, it was a significant component where I was working

01:03:09.290 - 01:03:23.930

with the Dean of the College Liberal Arts and Social Science that time, who is John Roberts, and he, through this idea of like, you know, how do we think about leadership and like, it was actually supposed to be an arts leadership component.

01:03:24.800 - 01:03:41.270

And I came in and I really changed the idea of what I think arts leadership was, I think that they were expecting me to be creating a completely nonprofit arts, nonprofit arts leadership format, something that was very similar to SMU or some of the other ideas.

01:03:41.920 - 01:03:55.720

But, um, I had the outlet– since we were able to separate the academic side, where we're at Fernando was able to create the Masters in arts leadership program, and I was able to create the Center. My thought was like, this is a community

01:03:55.720 - 01:04:11.360

focus. This is a community–this needs to be community involved. This needs to have input from multiple places. We need to be able to do active research that is bringing in an arts professionals and bringing in

01:04:11.360 - 01:04:25.800

community members or potential arts leaders, but it did not— it was very important for me like I came into this, like to the fields, not as somebody who was educated in arts administrator, I came in in the field

01:04:25.960 - 01:04:39.220

as an educator, I came in the field as a party. How do we make sure that we were creating opportunities for other people to be thinking about the same way, people who are more brilliant than I was? How can

01:04:39.220 - 01:04:53.410

we create, connect them to these larger ideas, connect them to other people, so that they could get support in ways that were significant. So center for arts leadership happened for three years, and then we also created the

01:04:53.410 - 01:05:09.790

College of the Arts. So there was a transition within the university, so that my center was going to go in with the School of Art, School of Theatre and Dance, School of Music, the Blaffer Art Museum and the Mitchell Center for the Arts, and all of us were going to create a College of the Arts.

01:05:11.190 - 01:05:23.310

It was a great time to then rethink the vision of what center for arts leadership was, we just hired Rick Lowe, who is the co-founder of Project Row Houses and the MacArthur Genius Award winner.

01:05:24.150 - 01:05:38.370

And Rick's practice, is his communicate social practice. That's what he does. And that's what was the amazing amount of work that he does. So it was an opportunity for us to rethink what the vision of the

01:05:38.370 - 01:05:54.170

center was, instead of like placing it as arts leadership. How do we actually be the Center for Social Engagement? How do we think about community engaged practice and be a

01:05:54.790 - 01:06:10.060

lab for students, for artists, for community members in order to think about community engaged practice, but also how do we think about impacts? How do we think about impacts outside of aesthetic, not just aesthetics, but really think about impacts that are that

01:06:10.170 - 01:06:22.610

other cities, that communities actually register? What happens on health impacts, happiness impacts, what happens to think about economics; so that how can the center think about the–the

01:06:23.420 - 01:06:41.410

multiplicity of where, how art is valued? And how can we start putting together research, putting together projects, that are thinking about this, not in a, so that the context of our work is much broader than an arts community, it becomes a,

01:06:41.880 - 01:06:54.440

a challenge, a challenge to ourselves, to think about how we can make sure that art is a significant component everybody, every bit, of everyday life, but not only significant, but a transformative component of lives.

01:06:55.320 - 01:07:10.970

And how do we make sure that we are thinking about art as responsible and responsive methodologies of, of transformation, of communities and cities. So that is really been, you know, what, kind of the

01:07:10.970 - 01:07:26.100

foundational approach and philosophical approach of where we went at the Center of Art and Social Engagement. And we were able to, I mean, it wouldn't have been possible without being able to change to the College of the Arts, and without the support of Dean Davis.

01:07:27.550 - 01:07:39.790

And, you know, so I guess I just want to like, be clear, like, I tried to make sure that I'm naming names and this aspect, because I think that, like, one of the aspects about queer history is that I have learned is

01:07:39.790 - 01:07:53.230

that when it is important to say the name, it's important to acknowledge lineage. And particularly for queer histories, it's important in people of color that, you know, we have been erased from history, we've been people of color.

01:07:54.010 - 01:08:07.200

And individuals have, have taken the work of communities of color and queers and co-opted it into their own aspect. So I tried to make sure that I am remembering the people who, who

01:08:07.200 - 01:08:24.420

have been able to help me and make this happen, so that clearly the work that I'm doing is significant. I could not do this without those partners without all that work and without the multiplicity of partnerships

01:08:24.530 - 01:08:41.460

in order to–to make this significant, so yeah, sorry about that. So yeah, I think so that I think they kind of talked about case and kind of where we at and we've been able to, to figure out public programs and as well as projects,

01:08:42.310 - 01:08:56.620

and pilot ideas, as well as do some kind of evaluative research in order to think about what like how to, how to frame art in different ways, and how to make sure that–that the context of our work

01:08:58.220 - 01:09:15.510

is–celebrates arts and creativity, but also acknowledges that there are other significant impacts that we need to be working with as well. Right. What have been some challenges you face through working with CASE and working towards

01:09:15.510 - 01:09:33.660

your mission goals? Talking–like working with communities or like before, even all of this is like talking about these impacts, it's still relatively new type of field, you know, on and community based assets; meaning if,

01:09:35.230 - 01:09:48.230

art and community engagement has been happening for decades, you know, so that... but to be paid taking it into kind of a university level, or kind of a public policy level, it is–it's been relatively new. And, and

01:09:48.610 - 01:10:03.480

trying to do that work and to be conscientious of doing this so that we are acknowledging communities, acknowledging who's actually doing work. And making sure that we're being responsible in this is not a

01:10:03.980 - 01:10:17.840

simple process; because the timelines that we're talking about are years, and not just immediate. It's not just like an immediate people that are numbers of people who attended events. It is about changing

01:10:18.520 - 01:10:32.180

perceptions and ideas. So it is again about a culture shift. Right. So, I think that that has been a significant–it's been a significant challenge, because we are trying to,

01:10:34.070 - 01:10:47.970

we are— I mean, I guess the hardest part is that— I am trying to create a social practice project as the work that we are doing. And as we are doing this, we are learning and we are re-envisioning what the goals

01:10:48.020 - 01:11:01.570

need to be like, what the goals and what the metrics really are, as we are learning, and as we are continuing to, to build a body of knowledge. We are now able to say, okay, this is actually what we're looking for, this is actually what the perception needs to be.

01:11:02.180 - 01:11:16.240

So, I think that this is a–a point where we are not talking about— some of these things are also not concrete. You know, like how do we actually like– how do we measure transformation? How do we measure happiness?

01:11:18.510 - 01:11:37.160

So, these are the types of things where how do–how do I, with my partners and all of this work, start thinking about ways to trans–not to measure to–to–to describe

01:11:37.250 - 01:11:51.080

to put into the context. So I think that we are creating a field as at the same time as we are measuring it, and we are building it and, and finding that what we did kind of use the

01:11:51.110 - 01:12:04.520

wrong bolts at this point. So we need to go back and redo all those types of things. So, you know, I think that it's, um, it's exciting. And it's important, and I think that what is also

01:12:05.030 - 01:12:19.200

really significant is that, it is done in conjunction with some really significant partners. So my work at CASE would not be good–would not be anything without Brian Dennis and Project Row Houses;

01:12:19.240 - 01:12:31.150

because he and I do this and that, you know, like design fellowship together. And her— the work of Project Row Houses helps, you know, it is a framework in which CASE is really, um,

01:12:32.200 - 01:12:45.990

understanding how to do work. We are working with a community organization that has been doing this–doing social practice for 20 plus–25 plus years. I have not like, and we are learning with them and learning from

01:12:45.990 - 01:12:58.370

them and bringing other aspects, other resources with us to their work; but also understanding that it is part of their work, and we don't want to claim their work.

01:12:58.560 - 01:13:16.220

We do not want to claim the work of this board, that we are actually trying to acknowledge what the differences are in different places. And, but being a partner in this and understanding what partnership is, is really signifi–really hard as we're

01:13:16.250 - 01:13:30.980

getting continue to be like, partnering as a university is a really difficult, difficult thing. Mhm. Cool. Um, I also wanted to bring up in 2018, you received

01:13:31.440 - 01:13:49.440

an honor for your Harvey Arts Recovery. Could you explain the impact of this initiative? So, Harvey Art Recovery was a coalition of art service organizations that came together immediately

01:13:49.440 - 01:14:08.170

after Harvey. So that ways, culture works–like the Mayor's Office of Cultural Affairs, Center for Art and Social Engagement, Dance Verse Houston, Fresh Arts, Houston Arts Alliance. I think Galveston

01:14:08.210 - 01:14:24.360

Historical Foundation, as well. One of the things that we learned, like, it was clear that there isn't devastation to our communities. Part of what we wanted to come together about was acknowledging how

01:14:24.480 - 01:14:41.470

the arts are significant proportion of the community and how we, we needed to, to be conscientious about the recovery of our arts, like of our artists and our arts organization. Um, I mean, we saw that the millions

01:14:42.180 - 01:14:57.880

of damage that like happened just in the theater district with HGO, Alley and Houston Ballet; but we also needed to be acknowledged, like you know how that independent dance companies lost their studios that

01:14:58.100 - 01:15:17.070

you know, that independent artists also lost work. And so how could we as a group of service organizations or people focused on the arts community come together in order to–to–to document the

01:15:17.070 - 01:15:30.070

amount of–document what's been happening with the community, document the damage, document the you know, the stories document what happened, but also create the funds Harvey Arts Recovery Fund,

01:15:30.420 - 01:15:46.270

which was a effort of, you know like, multiple voices in order to raise money to give to artists and the arts, like arts organizations. So, essentially what we were doing was, we also recognized that we were

01:15:46.270 - 01:16:01.930

creating a collective affair. That was supposed to be a–the framework for a–an ongoing emergency response for the community. Recognizing that Harvey was not going to be the only emergency that we were going to

01:16:01.930 - 01:16:14.910

face. So I think with Phi Beta Kappa, awarded us that they recognized that what we were doing was a collective affair. This is not about a specific— this is not an arm of the government.

01:16:14.960 - 01:16:28.130

This is about art service organizations and community focused people coming together and figuring out how are our different networks, our different constituencies and our different skill sets actually can be significant in a time of crisis.

01:16:28.900 - 01:16:42.050

I think that it was significant that we were able to come together, understand what we were able to understand during that immediate Harvey recovery phase; able to support people, I think that we were able to send

01:16:42.050 - 01:16:56.380

out over $100,000 in aid to the arts community, and to the small to mid-sized arts organizations, and individual artists, which, you know, which was significant to some of like, you know, some of those

01:16:56.400 - 01:17:07.850

people getting them equipment; but also getting them access to resources and understanding how to work with FEMA, how to understand insurance, and so that resources were not just about money, that resources about information.

01:17:09.300 - 01:17:27.140

It has been critical in order to have that framework, and particularly now in COVID- 19. I think that the emergency response group that we already have has been built upon the work that we did at Harvey Arts Recovery, and that Fresh Arts can source

01:17:27.280 - 01:17:42.200

Houston Arts Alliance and all the cultural districts with College of the Arts have been meeting and talking about what–what does, what can we do? I think that HAA like has also like had an investment from Houston Endowment in order to think about

01:17:42.200 - 01:17:56.100

an emergency response team and that there actually is an individual who has been hired for his art science prior to this, like right after Harvey as an emergency response coordinator, so that they knew and had skill

01:17:56.100 - 01:18:12.580

set so that as soon as an emergency was–happened to our community, that they were able to connect Houston to the FEMA and all the national and regional and local resources and be part of that crisis

01:18:12.580 - 01:18:25.680

response. And I think that we are continuing to do that. So we have a town hall coming up. We have money that are trying to go out. But it's also, I think, a significant component that this is a public private

01:18:25.740 - 01:18:39.330

partnership in order to recognize that these are artists, arts administrators, and community members really coming to the aid of like, to help ourselves and to help our community in the long run. Um, and I think

01:18:39.330 - 01:18:51.660

one of the things is that what we're learning from all of this–we are continuing to learning all this, we're continuing to learn from the stories of devastation, stories of hope, the stories like we're like, you know,

01:18:51.730 - 01:19:05.380

we're artists and significant. And also, how do we actually continue to, to share information with a singular voice that has been helpful for, for people to parse out as they can.

01:19:06.620 - 01:19:21.960

Mhm. That's some really amazing work you're doing. I was also wondering if you wanted to mention any other community organizations that's been most meaningf–meaningful to you in this interview?

01:19:22.880 - 01:19:45.150

Yeah, so I think in Project Row Houses been like a significant partner. Project Row Houses has been significant partner for my learning and with the center. Mitchell Center for the Arts has

01:19:45.150 - 01:19:59.380

been important partner in terms of this work. I think gain sorts, um, Houston where I was a board member –has also been a board member of that fund, and been invested in Creative Capital to organization,

01:19:59.380 - 01:20:15.970

national organizations that give money to, to arts, to multidisciplinary artists. And I think that being connected to and being supportive of arts organizations, that

01:20:17.370 - 01:20:34.880

they get resources out in the field, but also our investors in careers of artists are really significant. I think that it's been great and also to like, learn in partnership with you know, Jane Wiener in Hope

01:20:35.150 - 01:20:48.090

Stone has been a significant kind of like we've partnered with them for a long time. And I think some of the things that I–when I was at DiverseWorks, part of the work that we did was that, how do we actually help arts organizations

01:20:48.090 - 01:21:01.580

stabilize? How do we actually create residencies for organizations like Hope Stone, Catastrophic Theater, Sutudan's company poses breaking boundaries? How do we create opportunities in which— and Middle ??

01:21:01.580 - 01:21:14.900

Houston ?? How do we create opportunities where we have space we have resources that can be shared? And, and how do we create a network where–that we are all investing

01:21:15.370 - 01:21:25.600

in everybody else's success. And so, um, you know, and then also the National Performance stuff like the National Dance Project for significant places, where I've

01:21:25.690 - 01:21:44.080

met some amazing colleagues and learned an awful lot on a national level, which has shifted the way that I've been able to think about where art was power transformation. So–so yeah, I think that I've done like, I'm excited about the work and

01:21:44.250 - 01:21:56.780

excited about the ability and the work that I've been able to do support under-represented communities. And I think that we are excited about really right now, the Philippine–Filipinox artists of

01:21:57.340 - 01:22:12.030

Houston, where it's a collective of Filipino artists and finding what is needed in order to actually promote Filipino artists and culture in this town right now. And I'm learning a lot from them.

01:22:12.230 - 01:22:29.360

And–and the specific–specificity of... But you know, kind of their process and what I can actually be supportive of. So I think that it's exciting to, to see another generation, or a different generation of artists coming together and

01:22:30.030 - 01:22:43.880

more particularly around Filipino identity and Asian identities. And hopefully there're ways in order for me to be supportive about that. Awesome. And what do you like to do outside of work in

01:22:44.000 - 01:22:58.960

community–community engagement? I bake. Okay, and so I've been doing a lot of baking during COVID-19. Luckily, I've been picking it and giving it away or leaving it in ziplock bags of people's homes.

01:22:59.040 - 01:23:09.780

I think that I am... Yeah, I think that the aspect of like, community engaged practices and community, community is really significant to me.

01:23:10.790 - 01:23:26.330

And whether it's actual, it's actively doing work with it or just being part of it. Yeah, it is significant, um, it's important and important to maintain that. So. So those are some of the things that are, right— and

01:23:28.300 - 01:23:42.000

I'm trying to figure out a little bit more about how to get better and dance back into my life. So. Cool. And do you have any family in Houston? No. All my family's back in .

01:23:42.670 - 01:23:55.590

And, and so I'm sorry, my husband's here. And then my family, my family grew up with is mainly in St. Louis. And so, yeah.

01:23:56.970 - 01:24:11.020

You know. How did you and your husband meet? Through the arts. I think that we were–I was at. I was part of a curator, curator for a collaborative festival called Leon via Houston .

01:24:11.140 - 01:24:26.820

And I was there as the representative of the first part. Matthew was there as the representative of School of Music. And so we met at one of those, one of those meetings, and he never showed up to the other meetings.

01:24:27.000 - 01:24:42.010

So I actually had to follow him in and actually, you know, so we started dating, I guess, like, you know, a little bit after that. He's active in the early music community, and he's the director of Art Lyrica.

01:24:42.240 - 01:24:57.750

So I've learned a lot about early music and classical music in our time together, which is not something that I ever thought that I was going to learn. And we're nearing the end of the interview. So I want to move on to some, I guess, bigger picture

01:24:57.750 - 01:25:14.580

questions. You talk a lot about artists defining their own success. What do you mean by this? So I think that not everything has to be— I try to encourage people to be thinking about success, not

01:25:14.620 - 01:25:33.150

just in money, and how to think about and so that, and not just about these predestined careers of like, you know, that–that they do show that with you at the moment, it's like you know, those–these large institutions, I think that success needs to be defined by

01:25:33.360 - 01:25:45.710

what makes you happy, what makes your life fulfilled, so that work can be about a specific craftwork. It can be about engaging in an education career,

01:25:46.220 - 01:26:01.050

it could be about doing a specific project over a short period of time. So I think success needs to be defined not by these— I think and to success, it needs to be re-evaluated consistently.

01:26:01.590 - 01:26:14.650

And so that you are thinking about what was important to me early in my career is no–is not necessarily what is predominantly find that success right now. So I think that, so I think that when we talk about successes,

01:26:14.650 - 01:26:29.420

that how do we think about– about what– what is purpose driven life? And how do we actually make sure that we are measuring success upon the purpose that we are interested in and the goals that we have,

01:26:29.960 - 01:26:43.600

instead of what external factors. Mhm. Yeah. And what do you see as the role that artists play in society? Or if you want to answer

01:26:43.810 - 01:27:04.990

what unique role do queer artists of color play? Well, I think that right now, like you know, in times of crisis, we understand how important arts are. I think that you know, we look at–you look at the photos, you hear the music you find these moments in

01:27:04.990 - 01:27:19.310

which art is an ability, that is a connector across generations across; like, whatever distinction and demo- demographic that you have. There are people who can engage in–in song or can engage in a

01:27:21.230 - 01:27:37.120

dance. And that moment of connectivity, particularly, particularly in times of crisis is tremendously significant. I think that, particularly for queers of color and artists of color,

01:27:40.550 - 01:27:59.380

what I have–we, we have learned, and we push boundaries in ways that aren't unexpected; and that the passion and the porosity that like the people, queers of color, and artists of color, are bringing to their truth

01:27:59.950 - 01:28:18.700

has–has transformed what is possible. And I think that that's part of what you know, not only is it important in terms of... Yeah, that's like a transformation possible. Like who would have imagined that— I never would have imagined that

01:28:19.220 - 01:28:35.330

gay marriage would like— gays can get married in my lifetime. When I, when–when I was a young queer, that was–where we did not know that we were going to live, because of HIV and AIDS, that the cocktail

01:28:35.330 - 01:28:49.280

was still new and grew up being queer where we couldn't talk to anybody. We now are like the place where I am married, legally, and recognized by the entire unit–with the entire world.

01:28:49.340 - 01:29:07.880

So I think that that is a significant change that people are being new. So I think that, it is that aspect of truth and that aspect of... Yes, that I will always continue to go to and be

01:29:09.620 - 01:29:25.630

energized by. And where do you see yourself in five to ten years? Um, I think that–that–that question would have been much easier than a month— I think, you know, if you'd asked me this a month age.

01:29:27.480 - 01:29:41.440

I think that what where we are right now after COVID- 19 is, is really hard to say. I think that–my work, five to ten years from now, I think that I will continue to

01:29:41.440 - 01:29:56.870

be working with communities, I will continue to be an advocate for communities of color and under-voice communities; that I and, and making sure that art is a significant component of people's lives and a

01:29:57.450 - 01:30:12.750

significant contributor to a healthy community. And what that means in terms of what the projects are, or what my job is, I don't know. But I do know that these are the types of things that continue to drive me

01:30:13.070 - 01:30:33.130

that these are the types of things that I will always come back to. In the end, my work has been what has actually, what I grew up learning and what I continue to come back to. And my last question I want to ask is, how do you want to be

01:30:33.180 - 01:30:56.210

remembered? Oh, wow. Um, yeah, I've not really thought about that. I think that, you know, um, it is a, I guess, it just thinking about like, it was, as we think–thinking back on, like,

01:30:56.660 - 01:31:07.840

preparing for this, that as a young queer, we didn't–I didn't think that I was going to live past 30. Right. I'm well past 30 now. And, and so

01:31:08.570 - 01:31:20.170

we didn't, there was never a thought about legacy. It was never an investment about, you know, long term because we were living for a moment. I do think that like how I want to be remembered is, I

01:31:21.020 - 01:31:39.380

want to be remembered for my passion–for my passion as an advocate. My passion for–for–for communities and, and I, I guess I wanted to be remembered for being–being fun, bringing a sense of

01:31:39.380 - 01:31:51.350

fabulousness to the world. That's beautiful. Thank you. On behalf of the Archive, thank you for sharing your story and taking the time to share your history with us.

01:31:52.560 - 01:32:03.840

Thank you so much for inviting me and being part of it. It's great to like, go through this. Hopefully I was able to— I gave answers to your questions that people are going to find interesting.