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So today is March 29th and we are, 2013, and we are at the University of Houston, and we are interviewing Professor Dang. Um, would you mind saying your full name for me?

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Um, my full name is Thong Dang. Okay, um, could you please tell me a little about your background, such as what influenced your decision to go into education, um, and eventually immigrate to the U.S.? Um, even when I was a…

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little boy, my father was quite ambitious. Uh, my father had thirteen children, and for some reason, he wanted to have a doctor in the house, a lawyer, and an engineer.

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And he chose me to be an engineer. And uh, so, he sent me to a technical high school, and the name of the technical high school was Cang Dong. Cang Dong is still a technical high school in Saigon right now.

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Um, I stayed there um, and uh, studied for probably five years, and then after that… in April 1975, the

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communists took over. And so, uh, instead of being trained to become an engineer, um, they changed the program and they made all of us follow worker training programs, and so I stayed at the school for 2

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years of technical training, and then after that, I became a worker. And I worked at a shipyard in Saigon, which is also a very well-known shipyard. Uh, I worked there for probably two years, and

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then one day, when I was looking at the river uh, running in front of the factory, and I looked at the river, I felt sad, and I thought, ‘I cannot stay here and be a worker my whole life,’ so I decided to go back to university. And so, I went back to university

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and stayed there for four years. At first, my wish was to become a journalist because I want to uh, work as a journalist to get some experience. But then, uh, I had another

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wish which was to become a teacher, too. But then, you know, teaching can wait until after, you know, my experience as a journal journalist because I wanted to have a journalist experience before I could stand in front of my students and impart my experience to them.

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And so I decided to be a journalist, but then after four years, uh, after I graduated from the university, and then uh, the people from the teachers training college came and asked me to work as a teacher for them, and so I agreed because,

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you know, I truly, I—I—my dream of becoming a journalist was not materialized that time, so uh, the other choice was okay for me, so I decided to become a teacher. And I worked as a teacher at the teacher’s training

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college for eighteen years. Uh, during that time, I got married and because my wife’s father was a colonel of the South Vietnam army, and he was allowed to go to

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the United States under the H. O. program, and uh, so my wife was left behind because she married me. But then, you know, um, I told her that, you know, later if there will be an opportunity for her to go to America to be

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reunited with her family, then I would go with her. And so, that is why, you know, I came to America. Okay. Um, I will just take note of what was said during the not recorded section, and I’m just going to go ahead and continue from where we last left off.

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I’m so sorry about that. That’s okay. So, looking at your students today, and your children, do you see notable difference in people who have immigrated, say, during college life and children who have grown up here in terms of

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the interactions they have with their non-immigrant peers? Uh, you mean, like, my own experience only, or what? Yes, your experience or what you hear them telling you. Actually, uh, I did not experience any culture shock at all,

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you know. Because America and the American people were just like my old friends. Um, even when I was a little boy, I had my teachers from America, from England… and I read a lot of, you

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know, books about America already, uh, so when coming to America, you know, it’s just like seeing an old friend. I did not experience any culture shock on my part. Okay, what about for Vy and her brother ?

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Did they did say anything about the move? Uh, I have to say that, you know, that America is a wonderful country, and that the American people are also wonderful people, uh, so they try, you know,

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in their—every way, probably, to help us. Um, however, despite their help and despite their open attitude, I think that, you know, my children experienced some difficulty uh, when they were in America.

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Um, first of all, in Vietnam, they had a lot of friends, and the friends would, you know… go together, you know, for some fun, you know, all the time—weekends and weekdays.

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But here in America, they don’t have many friends. Um, after going back home from school, and then they just stay in the house, and I think that they felt kind of lonely, and

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sometimes, you know, uh, I felt sorry for them, and I ask myself whether it’s a good choice to go to America or not, because, you know, uh, in many ways, they were deprived of many good things that

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young children should uh, enjoy as compared to the children in Vietnam. Do you feel that…You mentioned that there is a lot more bills to pay and the pay is a lot higher, but did you feel that your economic status changed

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throughout this situation or anything related to your social status? Actually, the first of few years when I came to America, uh, I felt, obviously, that I, uh, was not

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occupying a very, you know, as a high social status as I did in Vietnam before because in Vietnam, teachers were always respected, and also as a teacher of English, I earned a lot of money there in

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Vietnam. So, um, my life in Vietnam was very comfortable, you know. I had a big house and with a garden at the back, and uh, I was considered to be, you know, much more well-to-do than many other

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people in Vietnam, so uh, my social status in Vietnam was higher than when I first came to America. Uh, however… when I came to Vietnam ,

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I had already worked as a teacher for 18 years, so uh, teaching is my professional job, so I wanted to be working, you know, as a teacher again, so I decided to move to Houston, uh, where I can uh,

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follow the M. A. program in English Language and become a teacher, and I stayed at the university for two years, and then after that, you know, the Language and Cultural Center, the English Department at the University of Houston, asked me to be a

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teacher for them. Uh, due to my long experience with international students, so I work for them, and now, my status in America is almost the same as, you know, my status when I was in Vietnam, so I am

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quite happy with it. I see. So you mentioned going back to get more education at the U. of H. Did a particular experience make you think that another degree is needed?

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Did people react differently from your foreign university degree for jobs, than anything else? That is…I think that, you know, that teachers in America…They surprise me because they treat me

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the same way they treat, you know, um, one another, you know, the other teachers. They never—they never had the least thought about, you know, uh, me being, you know, from another country.

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Now when I was first hired as a… full-benefit teacher at LCC English Department, the director of the program said that, you know, I was the only non-native speaker that they ever hired in their program because their

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program is teaching English to international students. And so, she smiled and she said that I was the only non-native speaker ever hired in the history of, you know, the department. And, uh… But then, you

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know, the other teachers respected me just like they respected any other teachers. Uh — Was this…sorry. Was this in Texas? In Texas, yeah.

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Okay. What about in Los Angeles? In Los Angeles, I did not have an opportunity because I stayed there for only three months. At that time, I was not teaching yet—I was not a teacher yet. So was it basically a period of transition from when you came to Vietnam and then moved

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to Texas? Yeah, so everything—the transition was very smooth. So if you weren’t teaching, what were you doing during those 3 months? During those 3 months, I just went around looking at, you know, things around me to learn more about America.

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And, then, you know, I must say, in my first few months in America, I was always cautious because, you know, America at that time still—uh, I know about America but that is the general picture only, you know.

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But then there are a lot of, you know, little things that I did not know, so I was, why, you know, cautious—trying to learn as much I can during those um, few months. Okay, we actually went through my questions quite quickly.

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Okay. Um, what was the hardest thing about actually settling down in the U.S., and um, starting from basically something new and out of scratch?

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Uh… The most difficult thing about settling in the United States and living here is… not only for me but many of my friends too, it’s because

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their—their experience and their academic degrees were not respected in America. Actually, you know, uh, very few people could continue to work in the

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professions they had been working when they were in Vietnam. I have seen, you know, a number of doctors, who had, after coming to the United States, they had to work as, you know, assembly workers in

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factories, and many other doctors could not find jobs here. The teachers suffered the same fate. Um, I think that, you know, I was an exception because, you know, I love to teach, and I was really good at

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teaching, too. And so, I was lucky to find to find a job, you know, as a teacher. So, for me, the social status that I am enjoying now is comparable to the social status, you know, I had in Vietnam, but then for many others, I know that, you know, their social status was not

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as good. I see. You mentioned that when you were living in California, you could basically down the street and speak only in Vietnamese and you would be perfectly fine, and then you said you really liked the Vietnamese community here in Houston.

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What was the difference between the two? Um, yeah, the Vietnamese almost are everywhere are basically the same. However, I think that, you

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know, uh, the Vietnamese community here in Houston uh, seems to be more open-minded. In what way? Uh, politically, and then also uh, with regards to uh,

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economic status, too. Um, I think that, you know, in—in—in San Jose, for example where I lived for 3 years—uh 3 months—people were always

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talking about money. They were always talking about houses. They were always talking about new cars, things like that. But then in America, seems like we never care about, you know,

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whether you are living in a big house or whether you are living in a small house, you know. That is what made me like um, my life in Houston, more. I see. I’m sorry there was a question I

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had, but I’m trying to remember what it was. So now that you’ve lived in the U.S. for a substantial period, do you still identify yourself as Vietnamese an— Oh, I always identify myself as Vietnamese, you know.

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Okay? Uh, I cannot be Americans. Uh, and I don’t that, you know, any Vietnamese would identify themselves as Americans. Sometime ago, I read an article published in 1.5

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Generation—that’s the name of the book. And then, you know, the researcher writing the article uh, said that, you know, she was very surprised because, you know, when she asked her Vietnamese students—actually they were American

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Vietnamese students—and then, it seemed like they always identify themselves as Vietnamese rather than American. And that was surprising to her. For my part, I think that, you know, no matter how long I live in America, I will

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identify myself as Vietnamese. It may be different for, you know, like my kid’s generation. I don’t know. So you’re thinking that with the duration—and your grandkids and their kids—will eventually come

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to identify themselves as American. Yeah. I believe so. Even now, you know, their tie to Vietnam is not as strong as, you know, when they first came. When they first came, my kids’ tie to Vietnam was very strong.

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Uh, but then, you know, children are very highly adaptive, so after living here in America for a long time, I think that, you know, they think of themselves more as American than Vietnamese. Are there aspects of Vietnamese culture or practices that you

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keep at home still? Oh, we always live like Vietnamese at home, you know—eat Vietnamese food, uh, we observe Vietnamese holidays, and we observe Vietnamese customs in our house.

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We even try, as much as possible, to speak Vietnamese in the house. So we tried to keep Vietnamese traditions, you know, alive in our house. And you’re hoping that that will also continue?

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Yeah, that will continue. That will continue. Uh, and hopefully, you know, my kids will learn something from it. So even when later—later—they think of themselves

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as Americans, I think that, you know, and I hope that they will not be a hundred percent like other Americans. So somewhere in them,

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they still know that, you know, they are in some way different. Okay, do you still keep in contact with the family you left behind in Vietnam? Oh yeah, yeah! We always have, you know, keep contacts with the people back there. And sometimes, we even went back to visit.

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How were those visits? Was it surprising to see how far Vietnam has come? Ever since you left? Are there I have been away from Vietnam for eleven years, uh, and before coming to the U.S., I was teaching

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at the teacher’s training college for eighteen years. And so, every day I had to go from my house to my college, you know, um, twice, at least, every day. But then three years ago when I went back to Vietnam,

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I couldn’t find my way back to the college anymore. I couldn’t find a way back to the teacher’s training college anymore. Everything had changed completely. Does that include technology as well?

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And the way people communicate, especially after the Vietnam War? As far as technology is concerned, I think that, you know, the kids in Vietnam, they are enjoying the same kind of technology that we have in America.

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There is nothing in America that my children know of that is not known by the, you know, their relatives in Vietnam, especially among the younger generation. You mentioned that you don’t want your kids to be a hundred percent like other Americans.

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Can you elaborate, like, particular behaviors? Or actions that you don’t want them to pick up? I always insist that my kids speak Vietnamese to me at home because when they English, and they

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sound very impolite. Okay, so that is—the way they behave to the elders in the family uh, was not polite enough in my view.

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So I always try to make them speak Vietnamese, especially when uh, the nature is sensitive and then I try to make them speak Vietnamese so as not to make me angry. I see.

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I see. You also mentioned something interesting, and I finally remember what my question was. You mentioned that you like how more open the Vietnamese here are about politics. Are you referring to American politics or more so politics back in Vietnam? No, I was talking about politics back in Vietnam,

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not American politics. How was it different from the atmosphere in California? Vietnam is now a communistic country. And uh, the people who came to United States, they were

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running away from Communism. Uh, they ran away from communism because they had had very strong ties with the Saigon government before 1975, and so the communists, they were afraid of

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reprisals from the communists. So that’s why they moved to America. Uh, I have a feeling that, you know, the people in San Jose, California—um,

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they still hate, you know, the communists so much. In Houston, there are also people who not like communists, but that does not prevent them from, you know, going back to the

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country, seeing people, seeing places. So I think that, you know, the people in California, they are a little bit more persistent in their, you know, fight against Communism. I see. And your wife’s family that immigrated before she did, are they also in

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Houston, or? No, my wife’s family are now living in San Jose. Okay, I see… Uh, now that you’ve in the U.S.

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for a while, and you’ve acclimated. Do you foresee yourself leaving Houston and the Vietnamese community here for when you get older and you retire and

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move on, and your children move on? You mean…? Like stay in the U.S. instead of…I don’t know if you can go back to Vietnam after this. Oh, of course we can go back to Vietnam any time…That

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is something that, you know, sometimes I and my wife would talk about, you know. The life in the U.S. is good in many ways.

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However… for real happiness, and then we think that, you know, the life in Vietnam would—would—would give us more happiness. Even when the living standards—of course the living

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standard in America is much better, you know, uh, environment and everything, you know—however if you really, I think if we really want to feel happy, it must be back in Vietnam.

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So I am thinking maybe, you know, one day when um, my kids start their university, and then, you know, we do not have to take care of them anymore, probably we will go back to Vietnam, especially uh, after we have

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retired, we’ll go back. But it’s not going back for good, you know! It’s more like going back and then, you know, coming back here, and then going back again, coming back here, you know?

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So, in a way, I think that, now, I have two homes, you know, one in Vietnam and one in America. When you said, like, ‘real happiness,’ like what comprises real happiness? Real happiness, in my opinion, comes from what happens

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every day—what you do every day. Now in here in America, we go to work and actually, you know, we don’t have the same kind of friends at our place of work as we do in Vietnam.

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Like in Vietnam when I was a teacher, you know, any time after teaching some classes, we’ll go out together, you know, for a cup of coffee. And we would sit there, you know, for two or three hours talking about a lot of things—everything!

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Whenever we have some free time, we would come together for a drink of beer. That, we don’t have in America. I don’t know, you know, what happens among American teachers, but then, you know,

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because I am Vietnamese, so sometimes, I really, you know, I really, you know, want invite them to come over to my house for a chat or a cup of coffee, but the problem is we don’t know—we don’t have—too much to talk

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about. Because, you know, in some way, our life is different from their lives, and so there is nothing between us—me and the other American teachers.

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So what we can talk about is just work, then besides work, there is nothing more for us to talk about. So that is why, you know, I never have my American friends coming over to our house for a chat.

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But then, I do have, you know, Vietnamese friends coming to my house once every month for a glass of beer and, you know, we can talk for three hours, you know, we can play music together. But it is just among Vietnamese people.

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So even when there is nothing like discrimination, there is… some kind of separation, some kind of barrier, between us, okay? Because we don’t share the same cultural background, we don’t share, you know, a

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lot of things together, and so even when, you know, I do not not like them and they do not not like me, but still we cannot sit together for a long time. We treat each other with respect but then that’s all.

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So, coming back to the theme of happiness in Vietnam, any time I want to have a friend come over, you know, I can just call them on the phone and they would come over immediately.

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Everything is around you. In America, if you want to have a cup of coffee or if you want to have some food, you have to drive a long way—at least 20 minutes. Now in Vietnam, you just walk outside the house and everything is

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there outside the house already. So when I was in Vietnam for a visit, breakfast was brought, you know, into the house by the people, you know, living next door, okay?

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So everything was very easy. Uh, and then, you have contact with people all the time, and everything around are familiar to you. Everything. So, we have been living

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at—we have been living for a long time with it, and then, so it become a part of you already. And so now if you are again with them, you feel happy. And that is why, I say, you know, for real happiness, it must

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be in Vietnam, you know. Okay. One we have not really touched upon is, is there a role that religion played in your family at all? No, actually, you know, religion has no particular role in

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my family because we are, um, I think we are nonreligious people. Because we just uh, do ancestral worshipping and ancestral worshipping is a natural…actually, my father was basically

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an ancestral worshipper. And then, you know, there was a time he became Catholic. That was during Diệm Administration in the South.

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Many people had turned Catholic in order to have a promotion, okay? And so my father, you know, decided to be Catholic for some time, but he was not a devout Catholic.

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So he stayed, you know, being a Catholic for a couple of years, and then after that, you know, he went back to his ancestral worshipping. Um, but I mean in Vietnam, um, in my place, there were churches—Catholic

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churches—and Buddhist pagodas. So, I was kind of, you know, influenced by both of them. So, and, at times like this—like Easter—I would go to church and enjoy a party there.

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Usually, they have a party, you know, for Easter at the church. And so, I would go to church and then, you know, on Christmas, I would go to a Catholic church to enjoy Christmas day. But then, you know, on Buddha’s Day, I would go to the

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pagoda, and so. And, you know, I think, you know, I would try to train my children in the same tradition, you know, but there is respect to enjoy, you know, all sorts of, you know, religious holidays.

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I see. Do you still maintain an ancestral shrine? And What’d you say? Do you still maintain an ancestral shrine that your father did? Yes, I do have one at home. I do have it—one at home.

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I think that, you know, in all Vietnamese family here in America, they do have it, if they practice ancestral worship—they must have it. Did you first start going to the church when your dad turned Catholic and just continued

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the practice as you immigrated, or is there something particular about the churches in the U.S. that drew you to them and their celebrations? I don’t quite get the question.

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Oh, okay. So I was wondering if it was the fact that a lot of the Asian community was around the churches that attracted you to going to church, or was it a habit from when you were little and your father turned Catholic.

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No, no, no, no. In Vietnam, uh, we have a harmony of religions. And so the religions can live together. So in the same neighborhood, you have a Buddhist pagoda and you can also

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have a Catholic church, okay? So no religion tries to influence, you know, any other religions, so I um, just went to Catholic church because there was fun there.

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And so I went to Buddhist pagoda because there were also fun there. Whenever there was a lot of people going to church, I would go to church because I did not want to miss, you know, any fun there. But and if—if they were going to the pagoda, I would go to the

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pagoda. I see. And so, how’d you find the church you attend in Houston? Actually, you know, I never went to a church in Houston except, except—except—you know, one time when I heard people say that, you know, a new

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Catholic church has just been built and was magnificent so I went there and looked at the church only. But actually, I never went to church nor would I go to pagoda.

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Uh, except on New Year’s Day, and then, you know, uh, our family would go to the pagoda—the Buddhist pagoda—because that has been a tradition in my family for a long time. I see. So the Easter party that you go to…?

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That was when I was a little boy. And I loved the eating. They always had a big feast at the church when I was a little boy in Saigon. They always had a big feast, you know,

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after Easter if I’m not mistaken. There was a lot of whole buffalo they would prepare, you know, a big feast there so I would just join them for the food only. Okay… So,

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would you say that your choice in continuing to teaching—was it affected by any economic turmoil during your time in the U.S.? No, no. I have always been a teacher. And I—I hope that I can remain being a teacher,

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so regardless of how the economic situation, you know, turns out to be, I still be a teacher. And I’m happy being a teacher. And I don’t think too much about salary,

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or when I when I work as a teacher because, to me, teaching is more important. So, you know, I would do teaching. I actually think I went through most of the question, so um…

00:31:44.360 - 00:31:59.060

in addition to living with your family, with your sibling, and going to a technical high school, is there anything else that stands out about your childhood that you look back to and it’s like, ‘wow, this is very different from when

00:31:59.100 - 00:32:09.710

I grew up.’ From..? From when you grew up as a child. Like, anything that they used to do back when you were little but no longer do anymore.

00:32:10.980 - 00:32:23.690

No! Uh, what they did in the past, you know, they are doing now, you know, so actually, I don’t see any difference. As of three years ago, I went back to my neighborhood where I had lived as a child.

00:32:24.320 - 00:32:35.680

And, you know, I could still see the same faces and then, you know, we would still say hello to each other and still, you know, go together for a cup of coffee and we’d talk, you know, so I think that, you know, as far

00:32:35.680 - 00:32:48.710

as the relationship among the people living there and then—not, there is no much change. The only change that I noticed when I went back three years was the economic situation there.

00:32:49.590 - 00:33:01.000

Uh, many people have become richer and their life have become more comfortable. They are living now in very big and beautiful houses. That’s it.

00:33:01.690 - 00:33:17.720

That is what surprised me most, and I—I—I was surprised because things had changed so quickly—much more quicklier than I had expected. I see. Um, so what made you surprised that the economic changed so quickly?

00:33:18.130 - 00:33:30.320

What did you think was gonna happen instead? Or what, would it just not have changed? Vietnam is a… a lucky country, actually.

00:33:31.470 - 00:33:49.600

Um, we… we have a special philosophy, uh, which is to live together in a harmonious way and uh…

00:33:52.500 - 00:34:13.860

and to be good… to do something good for the country and that is why, you know, um, during the first few years after 1975, when, um… Vietnam

00:34:13.860 - 00:34:22.870

was experiencing economic embargo by the U.S. and the Vietnam, itself, closed its doors to the world, the situation in Vietnam was very miserable.

00:34:23.680 - 00:34:38.610

But then, you know, I think that everybody in Vietnam—the ruling class as well as, you know, the lower classes—they just want to have better life. And so, they decided to open up

00:34:38.610 - 00:34:55.900

the country. And Vietnam actually, you know, has been a place where, you know, foreign influences come and go and come again, so uh… we are used to that, and we are always, you know, open to

00:34:56.210 - 00:35:10.100

new things. And so ever since Vietnam opened its door, things changed very quickly. Okay. I actually think this is the extent of my questions. Thank you so much for having an interview with me. I really appreciate it.

00:35:10.240 - 00:35:14.960

It was very nice of you. Thanks. Thanks for interviewing me. Thank you for letting me sit in.