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Hello Mr. Davier, thanks for corresponding to this interview. My name is Linda Park, and... I'm Dillon Chai. And we are sitting at a library at Zoroastrian Cent—Association

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Center. Correct? Um, today's date is June- Ninth. June 9th, 2014. Um, all right, thank you so much again, and we'll start interviewing from

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your childhood. So could you explain a little bit what your childhood was like? Um, my childhood was great. I mean, pampered, only son. You know. In Asia, if you're an

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only son, it means a big thing if the first child is a son. So I was spoiled rotten. But, I had— They're waiting for you in the hall. We can restart it.

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I mean it's fine. We can continue. You're going to have to excuse me, I have a bad congestion. Okay, so, I'll just ramble on and then if you have questions ask me.

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Um, my dad believed, um, in going—that going to the best school would make a difference. So he put me in one of the best schools you could ever have in India, or in Bombay.

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And um, I graduated from school in ‘70. That's a—now do you want me to go back in my childhood? Um, you can go on, yeah. When I grew up I had two more sisters, siblings

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and um, one was two years younger than me and one was twelve years younger than me. And we all grew up as a joint family, and uh… I

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had my—we had the fourth and fifth floors, so, and uh, my grannies and aunties all used to live on the fourth floor and we used to live on the fifth floor. And you can go up and down in

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between, there were stairs. And, um, then… I use to go. See it's a very important thing, the joint family system is very important, because that's where I learned my prayers.

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Otherwise, uh, my mom was from a place further north from Bombay, where she grew up where the British were. So, she did not uh, come from where my dad came,

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my dad came from close to, uh, from Davier, which is where my name comes from, and Davier is close to where the Zoroastrians first landed in Gujarat, at a place called Sanjan.

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Have you heard of that? Um, no. Could you spell that out? S for Sam, A, N for Nancy, J for Japan, A, N for Nancy. Davier is two miles away.

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So… it was, so the roots were from Davier, my dad's roots. He grew up there, he was born there, his dad was born there, my great-grandfather was born there.

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So, then now—then when my dad moved after my grandfather died, they all moved to Bombay. And my dad um, you don't want me to go back to my dad right?

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No it's fine. You want me to? Yes, please. Okay, because it's interesting to know about him. My great-grandfather built the first school in Davier for all Zoroastrians there and for the family.

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And, then, my grand—he passed away, my grandfather was the grand-patriarch of the family. And he decided that uh, not only would the Zoroastrians study, but everyone whose children were working for us

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instead of being at home would go to school. So he enlarged the school. And the government didn’t—Davier didn't have a post office.

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So he allowed the post office to come from the neighboring town and give out letters for everyone rather than us go to that town. So there were many things that my grandfather introduced. We had a farm, cattle,

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farm, crops, everything. Nice, huge home. Again joint family, everyone living together. And then, at—when my dad was about fifteen years old,

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his dad passed away. That's my grandfather. And in Davier you learnt in Gujarati language, not English. But my dad always

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wanted to be a doctor, so at age sixteen he came to Bombay, and he joined, and stayed with his uncle and his mom and all still in Davier. And he joins an English medium school, that's what

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they call it, they call it English medium or Hindu medium or Gujarati, they use the word ‘medium.’ I don't know why, but it's like the British word, you know? So anyway, he would join the English medium, and, uh, believe it or not, he was put in the first

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standard, grade one. But he had determination. He went to school, he passed school, he passed college, and he became a physician. I still remember when me and my sister were studying for our

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exams, he would sit on the dining table and study for his. But he was also businessman, he owned hotels and restaurants. So he would run back, but he still wanted to be a doctor.

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So, now that was sort of his determination, and I was complete reverse. I-I-my dad was cool, very quiet, you had to really know him to get him to talk, you know?

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Very silent man and… I was exact opposite when I was young. You want to hear an interesting story? I was gung-ho; I didn't believe in anything, he wanted me to be a doctor, of course. And he said

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that you will go to America, and you will be a very famous doctor. And I'm in America, but I'm not a famous doctor. So that was his dream, and I guess his dream pulled me here because I

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never dreamt of coming here, you know? When we came here, but it just happen by coincidence, I tell you about that later. But going back—now I come to my childhood. I was born in Bombay.

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By that time my granny and aunties and all had moved from Davier and come to Bombay. By that time my dad was established and he had called them all over. Then I grew up, I went to, um… what do you call that, a convent school?

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Not convent, an English medium school, but uh— we had what is called Senior Cambridge. Do you know what that is? No? Mm-mm. Okay, Senior Cambridge.

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I think mine was the second last graduation. Everything in our school was from England, everything. Teachers, everything. Teachers, the curriculum, education.

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And there were priests running it. Then , um, you know Cambridge University, that's why they call it the Senior Cambridge Exam. You either did the ISC exam, which is the

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Indian equivalent now, or you did Senior Cambridge. At that time, I did Senior Cambridge and I did ISC after that. Um, can you tell me what ISC is?

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Indian School Certificate. Okay. That's the grad, that's being out of school, you know? It's still called ISC. But when you did

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your Senior Cambridge you always passed out in December, and when you did your ISC you passed out in April. So, it was normal for guys like me to get Senior Cambridge and get an

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exemption in Hindi, because we studied in a British school, so we would get a government exemption, and then we pass through the ISC. ISC was like passing child’s play, Senior

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Cambridge was tough, I mean, very tough. Our—our papers would go to England to get examined, I mean, the papers would come from there, I don't know where they were examined, maybe in India. But I knew that we followed the same curriculum they followed

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in England. That helped me. That helped me a lot. during my time, education was not… uh, a priority for ‘free India,’ whatever

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you call that. I was born in '48, that's when—India got its independence in '47, and I was born in '48. When I was growing I remember that there was a big transition, up

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to five six year old I don't know. But then Indians started buying out properties owned by British or French or Portuguese or other people, and that's how my dad came to own these restaurants because they

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wanted to leave and he would buy it out. And then put his brothers or cousins to work over there, because they did not have his farsighted, they did not learn English. So, that's basic childhood.

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As a child I had super education, good friends—that made a difference. Because when you go to a school like that, you get uh, your peers whose parents are up there, maybe Japanese consulate's

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son, or—or film star's son, or minister's son or something like that, or big businessman. Everybody is who's who. Have you heard the name of Ratan Tata?

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No? If you interview Zoroastrians you better know that name. Tata. Could you spell that out? T-A-T-A.

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Oh okay. Google Tata, and his first name is R-A-T-A-N. He just retired. This is the house of Tata's. They were the first Zoroastrians who

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said, ‘We will give away all our income while we are living.’ They made billions of dollars, but they would only take about 10% and give everything back to the mainstream India.

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Not just the Zoroastrians, for everyone. They were the first guys who got into locomotives, steel mills, airlines, factories, shipbuilding yards, everything, that family. Even he was in my school.

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There are people on this board, who are on our school. There are about four of us here who are from our school. One of them is right there, the second picture, he wrote that book. Merron Boyce.

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Dr. Boyce. Who is he? Could you spell his name please? Dr., and Boyce. B-O-Y-C-E, first initial is M as in Mike. So this—it's interesting for you to

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know, and I want to put in a disclaimer while I'm talking and let it be recorded, that I'm not going to sit down here and sound pompous, but I'm giving it to you as is. So you—because when y'all

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exchange notes, you'll see that some of us come from a different background, some of us come from a—a clearly different background. Some were fortunate, some were not.

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You know, so when my wife grew up, uh, she had a widowed mother with two kids, and the kids were about four years old, so you see what I'm saying? Everyone's not fortunate, some are fortunate some

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are not. And where Zoroastrians are concerned, if there is someone who's fortunate they always take care of the unfortunate. So, you won't find any Zoroastrian who's going to

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not have his meal or her meal. There's always somebody. If they go to the Punchayet which is B-P-P, I'll tell you about that later but, that's our organization, religious organization in

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Bombay. B-P-P, that's Bombay, Parsi P-A-R-S-I, and Punchayet, which is P for Peter, U-N-C-H-A-Y-E-T. So BPP has got immense funds, all the Zoroastrians who passed away and

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never had any kids, they'd give all the money to Parsi Punchayet and say take care of it. Or even if they were living. So, that's it. Now uh—the Tata's and the Wadya's and

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other families, large families who had money in India, they all made their money in opium trading with China. You're from China? Yeah, I’m from China.

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You're from China? It started in China. That's where the wealth came, the real wealth of the Parsis, from British India and from China. They would take opium and bring over silk.

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Why did they do that? Because the Chinese wouldn't deal with the British, so the British used the Zoroastrians. Zoroastrians were astute traders even then. So that's how they made their

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wealth. And at that time it was legal—opium in China—not anymore. So, now coming back, I'm giving you a little history behind everything I say, so you know. Now when I grew up, my aim was

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to be… somebody in life, but until I graduated I didn't know what I wanted to do. And it's always my dad forcing me—go go go into, he put me into college,

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he put—I could have gone into liberal arts, or I could have gone into science. We have two in India, one is arts, one is science. Science takes you into engineering and medicine et cetera, and arts takes you into liberal arts et cetera, or Bachelor of Arts, you know, and Bachelor

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of Science. That's what they had there. So he put me into science, and then I just didn't like it because I would not cut out for it. And all I wanted to do was to fly, I'm an aviator, I loved aviation,

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so different from what he did. So ultimately I became a pilot. You know, I went to the Indian Armed Forces but they wouldn't take me, because I was ten days above age.

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My birthday is on the 14th, I went there on the 24th, I passed the test, everything and then they realized I was ten days above age. Everything I did to plead with them didn't work, that's okay. Then I did

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private—I did it as a private pilot. And when we graduated I couldn't get a job, at that time India was not as modernized as it is now, now they don't have pilots. But during my time, there was a

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long waiting list for pilots, and so what we did was pitch the tent outside Indira Gandhi's house, you know, in Delhi. She was a prime minister of India.

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Indira Gandhi. Could you spell her name please? I-N-D-I-R-A, Gandhi. No relation to Mahatma Gandhi.

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Okay, her husband was a Zoroastrian, the prime minister of India, called Feroze. And… he lived two blocks from my wife, small world. But, like I said, I could

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ramble on and on, I'm trying to cut out things because you'll never finish in two hours. No, please, tell us. Sorry, I have a question going back a bit. Yeah, please, stop me. You said you were above age for being a pilot.

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So, the armed forces didn't want like – No, they didn't want anybody above eighteen. I—I was eighteen or nineteen at that time, I don't remember. Or maybe—no twenty…

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Yeah, twenty. And I was—ten days above twenty, and they didn't take me. So, uh, was it like a training program they didn't take anybody above twenty? Or like… No, just a rule.

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Oh, they only take young men- Only for Air Force, only for the Air Force. They only take young men. Oh, that's interesting. How did you get interested into aviation?

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So, you, um pursued that in college or after college? No, I went to college, but I didn't like college. Okay, okay. So, for about a year I would leave home, or six months I would leave home but I wouldn't

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go to college. I was—I paint, I'm an artist, I paint. And so I would go and paint and I made more money just selling a painting than going to college, and I was wondering what am I doing studying science, I hate it.

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And the catalyst which made it possible was the teacher. The teacher was awful, he either liked you or he didn't like you. And he made my decision for me to get out.

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Then one fine day I went and told my dad ‘Dad, let's stop paying the fees. I'm not going to college.’ So, then there was a big uproar, and then of course, you know how it is. I mean, uh, for

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Asian culture it's different, there you gotta listen to your parents, you know, when you're young. And um, when I told them, it was—my dad was sad. And then he said ‘Okay, son’, and then one

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fine day he comes to me he says ‘Okay son-‘ he loved me to death, I know that, there was a bond between us. And then he comes to me and says, ‘okay what do you want?’’ I said, ‘I want to be a pilot,’ you know?

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And then I went to a place called Nathur, which is in the middle of India, and that's where the rmy base is for training pilots, and that's where I did my pilot's course. It was government

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subsidized at that time, so we paid only fifteen rupees and they would pay the rest. Fifteen rupees, so it's nothing now, but at that time it was a lot of money. But right now even, fifteen rupees you give to someone they won't even bother to look

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at it. So I—that's what made me—it was— something in me which made me—or maybe because I was… very… I don't know. I really, really can't answer that.

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It just happened, and it happened. For some reason I got—maybe it was something which was—see, don't forget, I—uh, you know, go to classes like Sunday school, and

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then you would talk about Tata or about how J. R., Ratan Tata's dad, started Air India. So, I was enamored by that, and my dad had a restaurant next to Air India's office. And the Air India had

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the logo like the Maharaja, and I always say, ‘one day I'll work for you,’ you know? When I was a young kid I used to say that, maybe that could be it. I don't know, I can't answer that question,

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it just happened. Sometimes in life you will notice when you grow up also, that things just happen. And they have no explanation. Sorry, cannot give you an explanation, it just happened. Um, okay, um, tell me—did you fly

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anywhere special or how was your pilot life like? Oh, terrific. Um, when I flew—uh, we used to fly over the city; mostly it's takeoff and

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landing, takeoff and landing. Flying is very easy, but takeoff and landing is the most important thing, because if you mess up there, that's the most difficult thing in flying.

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So first you only do takeoff and landing. Uh… the best day of my life was when you get your first solo flight. The first time the uh, instructor says, ‘Okay, come

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here,’ —he would say ‘Come here, get in’, and I would get in and he'd say, ‘do a cockpit check.’ That's called a cockpit check, you gotta do a cockp—all pilots do it, they do a cockpit check before the takeoff to make sure everything is in order. They check the rudder, they check this, they check that,

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they check the flaps, everything. And I did that, and then he said, ‘Okay go, take off and come back, this is your solo.’ I knew what solo is, solo is where you take off, you go in a square, come back, and you land.

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That's your first solo flight. I got that in nine and a half hours, which is not bad of flying, I mean, that's very good. So, uh—in about twenty

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days I got my first solo. And that thrill, I have not gotten my life till today. That thrill, when as a young kid you go off on your first solo, it's something different.

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You feel—I was literally singing up there, you know, I mean, so emotional. Then… about flying, now are we still talking about kid? Or are we talking about adult?

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Um. Okay, anyway—there were many instances when you go flying, you're supposed to go cross-country, that means you go from—the instructor will say, ‘You and Dillon will go to uh, Dallas and come back.’ Okay?

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But don't forget we were in World War II aircraft, which had no communication. All we did was look at everything, look at the wind sock and land and stuff like that, and look how the flag is flying so we know where the wind is coming from, et

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cetera. So, both of us went, and we got lost. He was supposed to fly there and I was supposed to fly back, so both of us would get half-half rating.

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And while going, he got lost, why? Because of the windshield, the wind took us on the side. Then what to do, we went circled around, circled around; at last we found the airport we were supposed to go, Kola-Kola.

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It's written there in letters, you can see. So, then we said, okay, find the railway tracks. We found the railway tracks. Then two of us argued up there for fifteen minutes should we go this

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way on the railway track or this way ? Had we gone the wrong way we would have landed in a field somewhere, we'd have been out of fuel, right? But then I said, ‘Just remember we left in the morning and the

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sun was behind us, so let's go into the sun.’ Ultimately, he agreed, and we went into the sun and, yay, we came—we followed the railway tracks all the way back.

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We didn't follow the navigation or everything, we were—we had gone berserk. Imagine, when you're a twenty, twenty-two-year-old guy and suddenly you get lost and you don't know, what you're going to do with the aircraft, whether you're going to

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land. So that was a great thrill we got at that time. And then, uh—we parked outside Indira Gandhi's

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house because we were not getting jobs as pilots, so she issued a directive that all of us should be absorbed in Air India on ground level jobs. So, I got selected, I applied and I got selected as a

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reservations, um, you can say cleric at that time, because I started right at the bottom and came up. And—it was fun, I learnt reservations and I learnt ticketing and everything and then I became

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a supervisor then a manager then an officer, sales officer. And then Air India was managing as a GSA, general sales agent, for Gulf Air. And I was appointed to take care of that unit.

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When Gulf Air was going to start in Oman, in 1974, they bought twenty-five percent of Gulf Air, the government of Oman. They were setting up an office, and I'll cut it short, but I got the job. At Oman?

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At Oman. So, my first foray out of India was into Oman. Muscat, Oman. I helped three of us together; we built the office for Gulf Air, Oman.

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And both of them were Omanis I was the only Indian then. Then after some time when they wanted more people I got all my buddies from Air India, and I told them if you want to come, there are jobs. And then about… I was there for

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about five, six years, and then my daughter fell sick. So, I was told that there's a doctor in Houston that can cure here, while in Oman I was told she's not going to live more than six months. So, I left the home, everything there,

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and I came here. When I came here, I, um, met this Dr. Schoss, and he cured her. But what was three months took over four years,

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and by that time it was very easy to get a green card. So, I had applied for one only because I could get insurance, health insurance, I didn't have health insurance, and I was running out of my money,

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for her thing. So that's how I came to America, and then we stayed back, I invested in a business with some guys I knew from India, and that business failed.

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Then I started, from scratch, imagine after five years. In Oman, I have a home, a driver, a cook, you name it. I had that. And I come here and all

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of a sudden, I'm sleeping on the floor, you know, it's a cultural shock. You come to a strange land and you get an apartment next to the doctor's office, so that you can go often. And how long can you stay in the hotel, you know?

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And we slept on the floor, we slept on blankets with pillows. We bought two pillows and two blankets, one to cover us and one to lie on. And, just basic, that's all we had, and our clothes which we brought from Oman.

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And then when we realized that Genestine, my daughter, would need to stay here for further treatment we just stayed around. And um, I got—I left those guys because I lost all the money with them.

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They wanted me to sign… they wanted a huge loan and they wanted me to sign, and I refused. So, they said, ‘okay fine, you're out of the business’, and I was out on 16th of March, 1983.

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Without a penny. I mean, I was dead broke. Imagine, you come to this country with a lot of money, you invest with guys, you spend money, and then suddenly you become dead broke. But I had one thing, uh—when I was with these guys

00:29:59.170 - 00:30:11.610

in the travel agency where I had invested, people knew me. So immediately I went, and from the apartment dining table I started a travel agency, a new one, called Capricorn Travel.

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And that agency became the largest wholesaler in Texas. Yeah. In a matter of five, six years. I sold it after fifteen—no—I sold it after thirty years,

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I'm sorry. Yeah, thirty years. I got a good offer for it, and I sold it. From that agency, I had another one in Chicago, New York, Dallas, LA.

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I sold them everything. I got a good offer, I sold everything. Um, I have a couple of clarification questions. Tell me. So, um, how'd you hear about the doctor in Houston?

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And if you don't mind, could you tell us what your daughter was suffering from? And how old was she? Okay, she was a year old, and she had a problem, a nervous problem, in the brain.

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And… um, we were going actually to England, because that a neurosurgeon there. But then that doctor, I had family there, the family founder's doctor.

00:31:21.680 - 00:31:39.500

But that doctor said that, uh, looking at her symptoms, at that time there were no CAT scans or MRI's, in India, or in Oman. So it was just judgment. So—and she would pass out, and get high fever,

00:31:40.880 - 00:31:52.960

shake and, you know, I mean really, really horrible. Then the doctor in UK referred us to Dr. Joseph Schoss, saying that I know them,

00:31:53.170 - 00:32:06.270

he's a Swiss doctor, he's phenomenal, go to Houston. And I had these two friends I knew from one friend who worked with me in Air India, and he had another friend, so I joined with them,

00:32:06.560 - 00:32:21.780

after some time, not immediately, because I wanted to go back to Oman. And… Could you spell his name please? Dr…? Dr. Joseph, J-O-S -E-P-H. Schoss, S-C-H-O-S-S.

00:32:23.670 - 00:32:41.880

Phenomenal individual, after some—he knew our history, after some time, he would not even charge me a penny. Very rare, not a penny. Also, he gave me his personal home number because, if that,

00:32:42.060 - 00:32:51.760

anytime Genestine gets an attack, call me, and I remember once it was after about two-o’clock in the morning. He said fine, in one hour come to the dispensary, and I'll see you there.

00:32:52.750 - 00:33:06.980

But come through the back door. And he took her in, and then he got ice and put the ice in a tub, and then put her into it, with water. She was screaming, she had turned all red.

00:33:08.290 - 00:33:24.760

But, that was the only way we could bring the fever down. She would get convulsions, then go get into fever, and then pass out so—Dr. Schoss… if you're going to put a record of us in history,

00:33:25.180 - 00:33:35.140

he's very important in our life. He saved my daughter, he gave her a new life, you know. So, he's very nice.

00:33:36.140 - 00:33:47.390

Was she completely cured after? Yeah, she got out the labs after four years. But that was very minor, and now she's—after that there was—she was a tomboy, you know?

00:33:48.190 - 00:34:04.420

I mean, one day I come she's on the roof or climbing the gate, and I say, ‘what are you doing?’ She says, ‘It's okay, Dad, don't worry.’ And um, not because she's my daughter but very beautiful kid, very

00:34:04.420 - 00:34:19.300

pretty girl. And… very good at heart. Now I know that. Some good comes out of everything, right? But that is a horrible moment in our lives.

00:34:19.800 - 00:34:35.170

I've had ups and downs in life, a lot of ups and downs, but I don't sit down and cry. If I lose something, I go onto the next. Most—most Zoroastrians are like that.

00:34:37.090 - 00:34:54.160

They're very clannish and very gung ho; they want to go out and conquer the world. Could you tell me how you became so successful with the travel agency that you started? The love for it.

00:34:54.160 - 00:35:04.810

I told you, I’m an aviator. I loved that. Then from the travel agency, I had a client called Paul Gregory, Dr. Paul Gregory, at U of H.

00:35:06.590 - 00:35:22.350

And he was my client, and he was going to Russia. He goes to Moscow very often, he was… professor of economics for Russian history or something, in U of H, Russian division.

00:35:22.870 - 00:35:39.410

So at that time, it was USSR, I'm talking about 1990. So anyway, he was going, and then I said ‘Why don't you bring back a contract for me?’ He said, ‘What do you want to do?’ I said, ‘We'll start an airline. I've started for other people, why not for

00:35:39.480 - 00:35:51.190

ourselves?’ He said, ‘You're serious?’ I said, ‘I'm serious.’ After about twelve or fourteen days he comes and gives me a memorandum of understanding, MOU. You know what that is? Okay.

00:35:51.920 - 00:36:06.280

You need to know all this, guys. MOU is Memorandum of Understanding. That means, okay we understand, that we'll get into business together if we have the same common

00:36:06.320 - 00:36:23.630

interests, goals… you know, and desire to get into business, if everything fits into place. So, MOU is the first step you take into getting into business. Then—what, what—he brought an

00:36:23.630 - 00:36:39.020

MOU back. Before you know it, next trip I made with him to a place called Latvia, L-A-T-V-I-A. You know Latvia, Riga. And it took a long time, it took us about four years, but ultimately, I got

00:36:39.040 - 00:36:52.930

my airline flying, Baltic International. And we took the company public in USA. That company was Baltic International, USA. If you Google me, you'll find everything what I'm talking about,

00:36:54.020 - 00:37:07.970

everything, I mean. Every—we made history, worldwide history, because nobody had divested a division of Aeroflot and taken it public.

00:37:09.280 - 00:37:25.800

And we did that to the government of Latvia. So, that's—that's the very—that's what made us—uh, that's what made our company attractive for people to invest in.

00:37:26.680 - 00:37:42.950

Because when the story leaked out to all of the major newspapers, that's when people started to investing in our company. The end line never really made a profit. Yeah. Never made a profit, because, uh, when we had the airline

00:37:43.190 - 00:37:52.120

going, we spent so much money in fighting the government to come up to there. Because the government, Latvian government, was fighting the Soviet government.

00:37:53.440 - 00:38:06.120

And we got caught in between. But anyway, in—the food was awful. Catering. Then two of my pilots came up to me and said, ‘can we sell these small bottles of liquor on board?

00:38:06.140 - 00:38:17.480

Do you mind? We will give you a profit.’ I said forget about—I said, ‘okay, what's your background? they said ‘We are pilots. We took a two-week course in London, for aviation catering.’

00:38:18.510 - 00:38:25.860

I started laughing. I said, ‘two weeks, what are you gonna learn in two weeks about food? What do you know about food?’ They said, ‘Nothing, but can you come tomorrow since you're here?

00:38:26.620 - 00:38:39.830

And we will show you.’ I said, ‘Okay’. What they have done is gone to Lufthansa. Literally a trash bag of Lufthansa, taken out the containers, washed them, you know what i am talking about, the box, the lunch boxes

00:38:39.830 - 00:38:52.740

again. They washed them everything, and then they made a presentation for us the next day. It was phenomenal. And I said, ‘How much does this cost?’ They said, ‘Our cost is about a dollar.’ I

00:38:52.740 - 00:39:04.630

said, and, and my mind was churning then. Already that topic, we can sell for six bucks. You know? Because there is no catering available there. And then, they said, ‘Can you seat the

00:39:05.200 - 00:39:19.790

kitchen here?’ I said, ‘yeah’ ‘It belongs to the Russian army, and, uh, the major said, if you pay us good money, we will do it.’ So the major came and he wanted about ten thousand dollars, and we brought him down to two thousand, and we bought it.

00:39:21.030 - 00:39:35.610

Or three thousand. And then I gave them five thousand. And with that five thousand started Baltic Catering services. And when we sold our fifty percent, to Lufthansa Catering, we got our fourteen million dollars.

00:39:37.850 - 00:39:52.100

Yeah. And when we sold our airline to Scandinavian we had lost twelve million. So it was a wash. We ended up with two million, but we were distributors of Miller beer for craft products and everything in Latvia.

00:39:53.620 - 00:40:08.400

So that was a good thing. Unfortunately, it didn't take off too well. I miss my opportunity to start another airline in India. And… But I go on.

00:40:10.190 - 00:40:28.030

I go on. In the meantime, while I was doing travel, I also started selling insurance for New York Life. And, uh, you'll say, ‘Why did I do that?’ Because I wanted health insurance at a lower rate than

00:40:28.030 - 00:40:39.340

what I was paying for myself. And, a friend of mine said, ‘you come join me up, you'll hardly have to work.’ He tricked me, of course. He took me in. And he said, ‘You will get a

00:40:39.340 - 00:40:57.310

free insurance and you will get salary, and you will get this.’ And then, here I am, and old fogey in there, doing exams, but then I got interested. I started learning, I started, uh… What did I… I

00:40:57.370 - 00:41:08.090

took all my licenses. SCC and federal licenses et cetera, and now I do financial planning. So… I move on. I move on.

00:41:08.870 - 00:41:19.600

I'm looking for one crack. One more crack. Where I can go and start one more airline somewhere. Or just one airline merger or acquisition or something.

00:41:20.470 - 00:41:35.050

But I am looking for it. And I always do my businesses with other people's money, or with no money, and I'm successful. That's the beauty of it. Capricorn Travel, I started it with no money on my dining

00:41:35.050 - 00:41:48.230

table. I used to go to the corner of Hillcroft and 59. There was a gas station there where I knew the guy, and he would keep all my tickets and collect the cash and give tickets to people.

00:41:50.020 - 00:42:01.620

Because I was staying at the apartment at the back. Called DeMoss, you know? It is called DeMoss, so... But Capricorn became big. Very big.

00:42:01.620 - 00:42:14.140

We were major wholesalers for a lot of airlines, and, that's it. So, um, what community would you say has helped your, like, business endeavors the most? The Zoroastrian community?

00:42:14.510 - 00:42:24.000

Your friends from, uh, from your school? Or family friends? Zoroastrians always stood by me. Always. Always.

00:42:24.500 - 00:42:40.140

There's no doubt about it. In everything. It's not—it's sad, but it's not the same right now. The community has grown. When we were— when we had come first, there were forty,

00:42:40.170 - 00:42:51.750

fifty families. Now there are two hundred families. These are called growing pains, you know? You pay for the cost of growth. Always. Always.

00:42:52.600 - 00:43:08.140

And the new lot are not as giving as we were, you know, when you go to the hall and you look at the plaques, you'll see Collector's name, my name, other people's names and Abanjo Sanji's name. You know Abanjo Sanji, right?

00:43:09.770 - 00:43:20.960

The lady who... So her husband and I were good friends. He passed away. But he and I had a vision that we worked on this building. That's how this building

00:43:20.960 - 00:43:35.860

came about. I am a good fundraiser. So, I went out, and I knocked on a lot of doors, and got a lot of funds. And he was a good builder. Engineer. So together we worked hard, we put a lot of our

00:43:35.990 - 00:43:49.840

time and energy. We had a dream. Collector over there, who is interviewing in that room, he is another person who's very, very giving, and who has

00:43:49.970 - 00:44:02.690

always given to the community. He and his—he’s married to an American lady. And that American lady, I would say, gives more to the community than some of our Zoroastrian ladies.

00:44:04.750 - 00:44:22.540

You know? So, it's—it's how you look at this world, what you have, who is your partner, but the first community which really helped me was the Zoroastrian community and

00:44:22.560 - 00:44:33.020

then would came the Indian community. But I wouldn't say the Indian, because when I used to sell tickets as a wholesaler, when I wholesale, I had all different

00:44:33.070 - 00:44:50.480

types. I had Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs, Jews, um, people from all over the Europe, Germany, Holland, French, German, Greek, and all these agents would buy from us.

00:44:50.480 - 00:44:59.740

I will go sign wholesale contracts with the airlines. And get the contract. And then keep my profit and sell

00:45:04.890 - 00:45:19.410

it to them. Um, could you tell us, um, so did you move after your first settlement in Houston? Oh yes, I moved many times. I was... in an apartment.

00:45:21.110 - 00:45:34.350

Can you tell us where in Houston? Uh… Near Bellaire, and at the corner of Bellaire and Hillcroft. That's where my doctor, Joseph Schoss' dispensary was.

00:45:34.350 - 00:45:45.920

So I moved there. And, uh, there's a place, a street is called DeMoss. D-E-M-O-S-S. There's a DeMoss post office still there. And then there's a place called

00:45:45.920 - 00:45:58.940

DeMoss Townhomes, so we rent a space there. And... uh... um... from there, we moved to a place called Fondren Southwest.

00:46:00.850 - 00:46:13.140

That was, that whole street was full of Jewish. We were the only Indians there. And then, slowly, the Jews started moving out and that place started going down in '83. '83.

00:46:13.400 - 00:46:31.950

'83 to '87 was very bad for Houston. Horrible. Horrible. That's when—see, because there was, uh, depression all over USA, not depression, uh, what do you call that, uh, downturn in the

00:46:31.950 - 00:46:40.790

economy all over USA. It hit Houston last. So everyone came to Houston. But then it was too late.

00:46:41.010 - 00:46:56.110

It had hit Houston. But they stayed back. And so, we got crime like you have never seen before. Then from Fondren Southwest, we moved to Sugar Land.

00:46:56.110 - 00:47:09.350

And uh, on a place called Grand Lakes, you know? Grand Lakes? No. It's…it's on Highway 6 near Williams Trace. That's where I worked, and we bought a townhome.

00:47:11.390 - 00:47:26.080

Then we went to a place called Sugar Lakes, which is on the other side of this freeway. And we stayed there many years, my daughter, until my daughter graduated from the college, everything. And then, all the bedrooms are upstairs, and I hurt my back

00:47:26.200 - 00:47:37.280

really bad. It's still bad. So… then we, uh, wanted to move into a home, which would have a bedroom on the ground floor. In the

00:47:37.280 - 00:47:52.130

meantime, we had taken a town home in Sweetwater, on the lake, which we were going to rent out. As a rental property. And—so, that place was ready, so we just moved into the downstairs'

00:47:52.190 - 00:48:00.340

bedroom, and we liked it so much. And then, my wife did a bold move. She has never done that in her life. She put that home up for sale.

00:48:01.550 - 00:48:15.100

Just to see whether it would sell. And in one week, we got three offers, and it sold. And that's where we are staying now for the last fourteen years. In the townhome we built to lease, because it has a bedroom, and we are not thinking of

00:48:15.100 - 00:48:28.920

moving, because my daughter's the only one we have, and she's on her own. The whole upstairs is empty. One is my studio where I paint, and everything else is downstairs. And it's got a beautiful view,

00:48:29.220 - 00:48:48.020

very pleasant. Good retirement place… Good neighbors. But, yes, we made a number of moves. But, up to Sugar Lakes, we moved up, up, up. Then we, uh, came down.

00:48:49.290 - 00:49:02.950

Because when we sold Sugar Lakes, then we paid off our home, we decided that we won't take any debt anymore. You know? I'm sixty-six today. I mean, this year. I don't look it,

00:49:03.060 - 00:49:15.630

but people, at work I tell them I am fifty-two, but I am sixty-six. And, uh, I am really a senior citizen now. But I don't feel like

00:49:20.220 - 00:49:32.470

one. What else? So, as your daughter was growing up, did you really emphasize Zoroastrian culture? Yeah. Very much. I was very particular that—if she marries anybody but a Zoroastrian, I

00:49:32.470 - 00:49:46.760

would disown her, I would do this, I would do that. I was very particular about it. Very. And that—that has—that comes naturally in all our cultures. Asian cultures. If you look at any Asian

00:49:46.830 - 00:49:59.110

cultures, it is the same. They want—the most important thing is—my thing is—I was not religious when I was young. Mo—all my friends were Hindus.

00:50:00.300 - 00:50:08.700

You know? And then all of a sudden, I had no Zoroastrian friends at that time, when I was young. Very few. And from in my school, there weren't many Zoroastrians.

00:50:09.210 - 00:50:22.850

Very few. most of my group was Hindus. But I never used to really go to fire temples, or something and, uh, as such.

00:50:22.930 - 00:50:37.120

But then—or pray daily. But then all of a sudden, coming to America, I became more religious than I was in India. Now, why, don't ask me. I have never been able to figure that out.

00:50:38.420 - 00:50:51.540

But it's happened to a lot of us. We have become more fanatic religiously. I mean not like Taliban fanatic. You know what I mean?

00:50:51.710 - 00:51:03.020

I know I am being recorded, but I have to clarify that. But, fanatic means, God, we're a dying race. You know, Zoroastrians are a dying race. So we gotta save it.

00:51:03.560 - 00:51:13.310

For God's sake. Marry well. But if you look at the last ten marriages that happened with all our kids, they all married out of the community. Except one. My nephew.

00:51:14.280 - 00:51:26.900

He married a Zoroastrian girl. Everybody else married out. My daughter has had only one Zoroastrian boyfriend until today. Okay? All the others

00:51:27.030 - 00:51:39.340

are non-Zoroastrians. Now I've sort of cooled down, and she's 35, and I said, ‘You can just marry whoever you want, but just be happy’. She said, ‘I don't want to marry. Look around you.

00:51:39.860 - 00:51:51.440

All my friends have divorced already, Dad. Look at them’. So she's worried about that. She's worried that if she—she's very happy now. She said she is very happy.

00:51:51.440 - 00:52:04.850

She's got a great job, doing very well. And, um, lovely dog, who is the love of her life. And she said that, ‘I don’t want to marry. Unless I am absolutely positive?

00:52:05.760 - 00:52:19.000

I don't want to marry.’ So now what do I do? Am I a culprit for not helping my religion grow? Because Zoroastrians don't believe in conversions.

00:52:20.370 - 00:52:32.540

Now, that is a big thing. Uh, some believe, and some don't believe. Some are orthodox, some are ultra-orthodox. I am middle of the road. I would go

00:52:33.940 - 00:52:45.880

liberal up to a certain limit. But I draw a line. Then I draw a line. Now—first of all, there were no books. Remember, if you go back in Persian history, when

00:52:46.640 - 00:52:58.860

the Zoroastrians fled, they fled without anything, so everything was word of mouth. And wherever they landed, they changed everything. There was a huge Zoroastrian—one Zoroastrian ship landed in Shanghai.

00:53:00.660 - 00:53:15.400

So there was a huge Zoroastrian temple and, uh, graveyard still in Shanghai. And in Macau. It's still there. There are Zoroastrians.

00:53:15.400 - 00:53:29.330

There are Zoroastrians as far as Zanzibar, in Dar es Salaam, in Tanzania. You know? Zanzibar. So they fled all over. Quite a lot of them fled to Bahrain because that was the closest point from

00:53:29.370 - 00:53:45.540

Iran. Just across the water. So— umm, if you ask me, I am sorry, I, I'm talking, rambling on I forgot what question you asked me. Umm, did you enforce Zoroastrian…

00:53:45.810 - 00:54:00.120

Yeah. I would like to follow the orthodox way. And uh, a gentlemen in the other room was my very, my best friend. But he is married to a non-Zoroastrian.

00:54:01.140 - 00:54:13.490

Okay? His kids are going to marry non-Zoroastrian. But he is still my best friend. I have another best friend who is not married to a Zoroastrian. So that—that's life. I am not ultra-orthodox.

00:54:15.750 - 00:54:27.760

There are ultra-orthodox amongst us. But we—now I see that—I'm going to tell you something very important. So listen to this.

00:54:28.070 - 00:54:45.250

This is something which you need to know if you are going to research Zoroastrian religion. And of course, I am not the final authority, but I am giving you my take on this: We came to this country for a better future for ourselves.

00:54:45.700 - 00:54:58.620

We keep saying we came for our kids. No, we came for ourselves and our kids. I came for my kid, but when my kid got cured, I should've gone back. Then maybe should I had a chance, because there are more

00:54:58.620 - 00:55:07.410

Zoroastrians in India than there are here. Or in Oman, where we were. Because they will still live with the Zoroastrians. You don't mix with the Arabs.

00:55:08.590 - 00:55:23.620

The Arabs don't mix with you. So should I have had a better chance. But when we came here, now, that's what I tell people who are ultra-orthodox—that you should follow the middle of the road path, like I do, and start giving in.

00:55:24.370 - 00:55:35.720

They have come to America, we're the first generation and they are the second generation. Now, we can follow what we want, but let them follow what they want, this is their country now. This is where they are going to grow up.

00:55:36.550 - 00:55:52.490

This is where they are going to get married, raise their children, and their children are going to marry out. Slowly, if you ask me, the Zoroastrian religion, if they're not going to have conversions, is going to die. Period. That's why I said listen to me carefully because this is

00:55:52.600 - 00:56:04.810

the pattern. We came to America, we left some part of our culture—we left Iran, we left something behind. In India, we picked up Hindu systems. Those in Pakistan, we picked up Muslim systems.

00:56:06.440 - 00:56:15.320

You know, you understand what I am saying? And now, we come here to America, we become Americanized, Westernized. And our thinking is Americanized.

00:56:15.320 - 00:56:27.360

Our thinking, this, uh, but we still have one prayer room, we want a hall, we want to be together, and uh, we want to dress the way we used to dress, et cetera.

00:56:28.120 - 00:56:45.490

But I don't see a future in three, four generations from now. What you are writing on us today will be of a historical value. You remember my note to y'all. I wrote one sentence down, if you remember.

00:56:46.240 - 00:57:04.730

You didn't get it? You're looking dazed. ‘What you are in the process of documenting will have far reaching advantages insofar as the cultural arena is concerned.

00:57:05.450 - 00:57:23.940

Cultural. It will provide invaluable insight and a different perspective to our city and especially our Zoroastrian community's history in the making and for that we are so grateful.’ That's what I wrote to y'all.

00:57:23.940 - 00:57:35.910

The email? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I wrote that paragraph just to let you know that I am very, very grateful that you're doing this. Because who is going to document?

00:57:36.850 - 00:57:49.410

This is rich. You can see all these tapes. Look at the first tape, that's the Zoroastrian congress we had, and the Zoroastrian thing. We document everything. We have documented everything.

00:57:50.200 - 00:58:05.210

But do our kids who go to college come back? And take an interest in taking it to a next level or not? But, parents who are younger than us who are moving fresh, you know, fresh off the boat?

00:58:05.930 - 00:58:20.530

The new guys coming in? They're showing an interest. So, until that wave comes in, it's okay. But at some time, twenty years from today, thirty years from today, fifty years from today, unless they

00:58:20.660 - 00:58:31.910

consider conversion or something, all the— except the Tajiks—who are Zoroastrians, you know? They say that in Tajikistan, the main religion is Zoroastrianism.

00:58:33.890 - 00:58:48.440

Yeah. So that is something you would come upon, if you are writing on history. Azerbaijan, that's all near Iran, these are countries near Iran. But, I hope I answered your question. Did I?

00:58:49.640 - 00:59:02.580

You asked me, right? Anything else you want to know? Um, is there a reason why—Can you tell us again why you didn't go back to India after your daughter was cured? Because she didn't want to.

00:59:03.040 - 00:59:18.780

She didn't want to? Is there a reason why she didn't want to? I don't know, she—or even we didn't want to. I was too embedded in, uh, my business. See,

00:59:18.880 - 00:59:32.200

when my lifetime, I invested money, I lost, I started again, and when I started, I was busy making money, so I never even thought of going back. And later when I came to the States with

00:59:32.200 - 00:59:45.800

my wife and kid would never come with me. This was their country. Did you go back to visit? Do you still go back to visit? Yes, very regularly. I have moms, sisters, cousins—huge family.

00:59:46.980 - 01:00:03.850

I go to Davier. And... I mean, there's a fire temple in Davier, still. We all collected money and repainted it. I'll send you all pictures. Give me your emails and I will send you all whatever

01:00:03.920 - 01:00:18.760

pictures I can gather. And then... put down what that picture stands for, and then you can put it wherever you want in your... thing. Um,

01:00:19.070 - 01:00:30.740

we saw that you were really, really involved in a lot of communities and associations regarding Zoroastrianism? Um, could you tell us more about that? How you got involved, and

01:00:31.390 - 01:00:45.270

what you do? This community has given me so much. One. Two, Houston has given me so much. In Houston, they gave me my daughter back.

01:00:46.440 - 01:01:07.600

You hear? Uh, the Zoroastrian community stood by us. At that time, uh, and… I do work, I don't know where you got that from, but yes, I do a lot for

01:01:07.600 - 01:01:21.500

the community. Somebody must have given you the background, but not always do I broadcast it. I like to remain anonymous. I make a donation, I make it anonymous.

01:01:22.160 - 01:01:36.000

I don't like people standing on the side and say, ‘This family gave this, this family gave that.’ I don't like all that. It's—It's—I feel like it is my duty to give back to the community which has given me so much.

01:01:37.500 - 01:01:48.520

And, I do – there were— I just want to give an example. In 1984, there were 42 families. And, we would all

01:01:48.520 - 01:01:59.850

ask each other—there were no cellphones at that time, you know. So we would ask each other what is your phone number, where do you live, your address. So my wife sat down and typed the

01:01:59.950 - 01:02:09.790

first directory. And I went to Mr. Collector's office and I photocopied it there. It was five pages or four pages, but that was our first directory.

01:02:11.440 - 01:02:21.670

And now, I just made a new one. I have done that every time. I am making a new one now. But the last one we made, should be somewhere here.

01:02:22.350 - 01:02:38.870

And we have hundreds of families. So, and, mostly, uh, whatever I print is in this room somewhere. I do a—the children have a fundraiser, I am always there

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to do the directory and raise funds for them. I raise funds by collecting advertisements. By the way, this is Ratan Tata. And this is Synergy, which is World Zoroastrian Chamber

01:02:57.580 - 01:03:09.500

of Commerce. I was a founding member. In fact, I wrote the first charter for this organization, which is now worldwide. It has chapters worldwide.

01:03:10.590 - 01:03:25.780

So yes, I did that. But not alone, there were many others who worked with me. Four of us together did this. But they wanted to run it as a Zoroastrian Business Forum.

01:03:26.870 - 01:03:43.700

And I said nothing good. Call it a Chamber of Commerce. And before that, I was a part and a founding member of the South Asian Chamber of Commerce, which is still active today. Okay?

01:03:44.250 - 01:03:59.230

So, uh, I forget her name, her first name was Martha. She was at the city. Umm… a nice Chinese lady. Martha Wong. You know her?

01:03:59.600 - 01:04:11.840

She was—she ended up being one of our city council members. Martha Wong. And she was one of the founding members of South Asian Chamber

01:04:11.840 - 01:04:27.730

with me. The way we had South Asian Chamber, we brought all Asian communities together and found it. Instead of having separate—separate chambers. Let's have one where we can exchange our views, et cetera. And it's still in existence till today.

01:04:28.590 - 01:04:37.940

So I took that charter, changed it around to make a charter for this. And at one of the meetings I just launched it. I said that, it's not this—I

01:04:38.120 - 01:04:50.940

said, ‘Since I have the floor, let's form a chamber of commerce and take it.’ And another gentleman said, ‘Why call it—not Zoroastrian Chamber of Commerce, let's call it World

01:04:50.940 - 01:05:07.580

Zoroastrian Chamber of Commerce.’ And that's how it worked. And that's what happened. And at 2010, um, World Zoroastrian Congress, which we had in Houston,

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uh, I was a co-chair for that, and representing Houston. That's where we launched World Zoroastrian Chamber of Commerce. Today we have chapters worldwide.

01:05:24.020 - 01:05:49.550

I think we are about to close down. But, um, my final question is: if you have to tell one thing about your immigration experience to your daughter, umm, what would it be? Give back to the country that gave you so much.

01:05:52.790 - 01:06:05.710

That's one thing I would list as don't forget. That's one thing I tell all the students here. I said, every time we talk about Zoroastrians, Zoroastrians, Zoroastrians, why don't we go out and give back to the

01:06:05.710 - 01:06:19.140

mainstream US community, which has given us so much? See, agreed, we have got this fancy building we have everything want, but could we have achieved this if America wouldn't have allowed us to do?

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Think about that. Could we have achieved this in Vietnam, or in uh, Iraq, or Afghanistan? You know? I chose Vietnam, because I have been there, and it is still Communist controlled. Burma still Communist control; China, even

01:06:41.410 - 01:06:52.160

though it's socialist, I would call it socialist, but it is Communist control. But I like that, I like that very much. Because what I saw happening in Russia, when it collapsed overnight.

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USSR collapsed overnight. I was there when it collapsed. I was in Russia at that time. In five days, the whole empire collapsed.

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Okay? Gorbachev was instrumental in making that happen. You must have heard the word called ‘perestroika’. Did you hear that? That was his word.

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And look what happened today. If—if we don't give back to the community which gave us so much, it will be like those countries, because nobody over there is giving back.

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Nobody. They're just taking, taking, taking. Look at India. I have one last question, actually. Ask more. Have you become—have you become—did you become—nationalized?

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Yes. Okay. So you would view U.S. as your home country now. Yes, at that time I didn't like it. I did not like it at all. If you ask me the worst day in my

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personal life history. But now I realized—see the irony of this: I did not want to become a U.S. citizen, but my daughter and my wife wanted to be U.S. citizens. I gave in.

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And, uh… anyway, I was very emotional at that time. Didn't want to not be an Indian, you know? But then I realized-

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then— I—when did I become nationalized, I forget. Some time in the 80s. '85 or something. In '90, I did this business with Russia, where I could

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travel all over Europe, right? The U.S. passport allowed me to go anywhere. The Indian passport would not have allowed me. So, some good comes out from everything.

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You know what I am saying? So this sort of, I have answered your question. But after nationalization, there was some benefit, I didn't like it, but look at the benefit. And now—now, I will never dream of going back to India.

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Because my daughter will never come. She just doesn't like it. She just doesn't like the atmosphere and the people, and I don't know. Is there anything else you want to add to the

01:09:23.460 - 01:09:34.280

interview that you didn't mention? No, just give good justice to Zoroastrianism. I mean it’s a wonderful religion. Very ancient. Very rich.

01:09:35.880 - 01:09:51.320

Google a lot. Try to study a lot. If you ever interview people, you are going to be interviewing a lot of people, try to search where they come from rather than where they are now.

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You know what I am saying? It's very important where they come from, that's why I give you my father and my grandfather and everything and school to show how much they gave to India. You see what I am saying? I am following their example.

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They set the level for values, what you should do. But then—we—you—even y'all, you are not immigrants, but your parents are immigrants, right? Oh, I am an immigrant.

01:10:23.610 - 01:10:33.690

You’re an immigrant? Yeah. Then for you, it is very important that when you achieve what you want, your target, and you are doing well, you think of mainstream America.

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Think, how do I give back? You don't have to give back with money. Give it back in services. That's what I do. I mean, I—any project

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comes up, okay, I'll do it. All right, sorry, I can't do this. It’s not my—I just can't do it. See what you like doing.

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Get into it. As students, this is the golden opportunity for you, when I was a student, we didn't know what was Google or even the computer, right? But now look where we are. Y’all are so lucky.

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But— to—let's say to—there's a very important point that I want to tell y'all. All of us immigrants who have come to the USA have achieved a lot.

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Why? Because of the Internet. Okay? The Internet has changed the world. It has. And if you go look around you, what

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tools you have available for y'all, we never had. We came up the hard way. But, the education we had, you will never have.

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That's called being street smart. We are street smart. You will never have that if you don't venture out. So sometime in your life, venture out.

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Join the Peace Corps, or join some organization where for two weeks of your vacation time, you can go to Honduras or you could go to some other place, and give your time for educating people there.

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And see how you feel. You will feel like a million bucks. That's how you can give back. You don't have to give money. But, I'm giving you a lecture for nothing. You are just my two pennies worth to y'all.

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This is how I talk to my kids. Thank you so much for the interview. You're welcome. You're welcome. Anything else you—what else do you need from me? Some pictures I saw.

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I'll send you the pictures. If you can just give me your emails.